runitslow

I'm not sure how you call the flop, but not the turn?

Seems like you should be folding flop or going to the river. Turn fold seems the worst of the options.

Maybe slightly bigger turn bet and shove river?

he shouldn't have many 8's that called that pre flop raise.

It's pretty nitty, but this deep it's hard to argue against taking a safer route.

It's a pretty easy river call imo.

His UTG range isn't going to have many 2's in it (you could argue there are no 2's in it). It definitely shouldn't have a 67 in it and he doesn't play the hand like he's trying to build towards it.

It's an easy game when you flop top set haha.

It's a pretty sick dynamic. I think I play it the same because of it being a button vs. blinds scenario, but I'm not sure you can fold the flop after putting in half your stack if SB can ever have AK (which he can).

I don't like the turn donk. This board is just so draw heavy that as you rightly said, you can be blown off the hand if somebody shoves with combo draws or tp with flush draw.

I'm just leading the river after the turn donk. Unless he's at the top end of his range, he's checking back most made hands (Ax type hands). It looks like you got lucky (or unlucky) that he was at the top end of his range.

This is a good hand to 3bet pre flop. If suited, I would call, but unsuited I'm 3betting it.

There' isn't much you beat by the river, so I'm comfortable folding. $4 is purely for value and your hand basically beats bluffs.

Sick river c/r by villain here.

I can't think of much that you beat that makes this play so good fold. Maybe he bluffs this, but I can't think he's doing it with the frequency to make this a call.

I agree. I don't think this board scares the MP that much with most of his 3bet range. I would expect the MP to call with his entire range vs. the donk as well. He's basically only worried about the OP having one hand (8s), and OP shouldn't be donking the second nuts all that frequently.

I think it's going to be rare that the MP shoves the turn. There's really no reason for any made hand to do it.

And so by saying that, your shove more or less turns your hand into a bluff when there is still some value to be gained against his range.

Shoving is excessive here...You have a marginal hand on this board and anything that calls is flipping at best, crushing you at worst.

call flop, and fold to bet if diamond, j, 8, 6 hits. I can peel another if a blank hits.

The 3bet has value in it being a good hand and it has value in having some bluff capabilities to it. I like this

When he 4 bets, calling is far superior to coming back over the top. I would think it's something like calling>>>folding>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5betting

5betting basically strips all the value from your hand and turns it into a bluff. Most everything he calls you with (and he's calling a lot of the time) have you crushed at worst, and flipping at best.

With it being zone poker, I'm comfortable folding here. Poker is a bit more straightforward when playing this.

I think you could even make an argument for just calling the 3bet given the way these games play. I don't hate the 4bet by any stretch, but I think you have to be comfortable with 4bet/fold more often because people just aren't bluffing.

Pre flop seems way too aggressive.

I like post flop though.

Unless FR has gotten looser since I stopped playing it, aren't you walking into QQ+, AK almost always when 5bet?

It seems like you could have found a fold when he effectively put you all in.

I'd really want to know more about his shove range or at least have a read he can do this loosely to want to widen his range enough to get it all in this deep.

I agree..What cards do you expect to call your river bet? It almost seems as if you bet it on a bluff, not with a decent made hand.

My standard is to c/c this and hope to get some money from somebody bluffing a K or other air. There's no reason all the money should have gone into the pot here.

Ran some equilab tests:

I ran a couple ranges and basically it's a call as long as we assume he can do this with AK(suited or not). If you think he can then it's a call as we are 50/50 to 56/44 favorite.

This is about the only board/line combination that will get a guy to fold an over pair.

The only problem is that I'm trying to figure out what you're representing here? Would you get aggressive with a set like this? River shove on this board would be dicey.

Then again, CO has roughly 1/3 of his stack left and after committing so much, he could feel like he should call with any pair (short stack mentality).

Because with a 21 pfr, his UTG range is going to be in the neighborhood of the top 10-12% of hands. We can discount AA, KK, and to a lesser extent AK, because he should be 4betting them a lot. So that leaves a few non-paired hands in his range and a lot of pairs.

His flat calling on this board with someone left behind him is super strong and narrows his range down further.

If you're him, what are you flat calling with on that flop? Very few hands.

When the board pairs on the turn, all you really can expect to beat is a QQ, JJ type hand or complete air (which he almost never has here).

His comment isn't useless. You need to remove the results from your OP to not bias people's thoughts.

UTG range is going to be super tight on the flop. When I read the action, after his flop call, I had him narrowed down to AK, KK, 99 and maybe 22 (but not really).

Turn is 100% a check, and I'm pretty folding to any bet. If the river doesn't improve me (if UTG checks back), I'm not betting and just hoping to get to a showdown.

River is really a non-issue imo...It's the turn where you have to make your decisions.

Pot is 13.39, and you have 5.11 behind. Even a half pot gets you all in. So when you call the this, you have to know what you are doing then.

As played, if I call the turn, I'm all in on any diamond or queen. Folding most other cards. It's a real tough decision if we hit a K or A.

I'm also not opposed to 3bet/getting it in on the flop since you hand is that big.

Something's off with the hand history. How can MP raise preflight and you call? You were bb right?

Thanks guys....I ended up buying the Janda book for application purposes. Going to go through that then see where I'm at.

Oops...that's what I get for trying to look at RIO on my iphone while waiting for some car work to get done...

Interesting thing I just thought about in terms of poker trends.

Not to long ago, the popular thing to do was over shove rivers, now a near pot size river bet scares people.

His turn bet is super weak given pot size. Without a known read I think you could make a thin river bet. Only problem is b/f is tough and your probably looking at a b/c always.

I've got a 7 hour plane ride coming up. The last book I purchased was Mathematics of Poker, so it's been a while. Any recommendations for somebody wanting to brush up on 6max NLHE?

It's hard to get too much of a read on someone after 33 hands...

I do agree, you will struggle to get 3 streets of value. I tend to bet flops and check more turns, so I'd probably do that, because it's an easier path to the river.

I imagine he's firing any 10,8 or Ace on the river, but I can fold here.