nutinsider
16 points
Hey guys whats up? This seems standard to me but I think my confidence is a little low right now so looking for some insight....maybe I should have played this different?
I start the hand with about 1k. I have the button. The game is filled with station fishes and no good players....I mean, multiple AIPF with Ax hands and 4 bet shoves with k high and stuff. I mean, one hand I lead 90 into a pot of 125, and a dude just open ships for like 1300-1500ish....so yea, pretty loose game.
Ok so a dude raises and we get 4-5 callers. The raises in this game are a little bigger than normal. He opened to 50, I call on button with Kc7c. Flop comes out j84 with two clubs. Everyone checks to me. I think this is an auto bet. My hand has a good bit of equity, and its reasonable that I can fire and everyone folds. I bet 225 and the pot is like 250 (maybe this is too large?)
I get check raised by the initial raiser to like 600 or so. I don't have much left so I get it in hoping he has a hand like aj jq, 9c10c, 5c6c, etc etc. It's hard to put the inital raiser on anything super strong because it makes no sense for him to check a big PP on a flush draw board multi way....yea if he has JJ, that sucks but we still have decent equity against the tippy top of his range......Anywayssss, we run the board out and he turns over 99 like a boss....the range of hands that im leading with there are all two pairs, all sets, j9+, 5c6c, 7c8c, broadways with with clubs, 9c10c. his hand has about 25% equity vs the hands that I will bet with in that spot....Is my play pretty standard and I am overthinking this because Im in like a 500 hour breakeven stretch, or is there a way I could have played it that would have been more ev?
Maybe I should let this go preflop because everyone is just so bad and there will be better spots in the future?
Nov. 7, 2013 | 6:14 a.m.
I play professionally live. The last 12 months the games where I have played have shifted into PLO, high only. Most games are round and round and its fairly common for all omaha to begin after the game has been going for a few hours.
Oct. 23, 2013 | 8:39 a.m.
Hey Tom. If you want to message me I can give you some pretty in depth numbers I have over my observable sample...but just to be brief and explain the parameters of the omaha I play.....
1)Relatively shallow stacks...Avg 1k.
2)Round n round (omaha and hold em)
3)Lots of speculation preflop leaving most play after flop ship or crai...not tons of betting on later streets.4
4)25 cap straddle most people straddle for 10-15...bringing the effective bring in...10-15.
5)My biggest draw down is about 15k or so.
Oct. 21, 2013 | 10:50 p.m.
It does seem pretty accurate that a 50-100k roll is about spot on for Live full ring PLO, 5 bring in, straddles, and avg stack around 1kish.
Oct. 21, 2013 | 8:37 p.m.
Yea, its kinda funny. Ive noticed in casinos, a 5 bring in game plays much deeper than a home game with the same bring. Home game PLO much more getting money in preflop and shallower stacks...casino PLO is deeper and more post flop play.
Oct. 21, 2013 | 8:18 p.m.
Im never 5 bet shoving in an iso attempt with anything less than AKKx, and even then, I'd have to have a pretty decent read on the table. Considering jamming QQxx is going to cost you a lot of money in the long run as people four betting range rarely includes many hands that you are in nice shape against. General rule of thumb is if you can get 30-35% of your stack in pre with AAxx or Akkx type of hands, then do it, and pray you only get one or two callers....Set mine, play flops in position, and don't baloon the pot pre with naked queens and stuff. This is especially true when playing live full ring.
Oct. 21, 2013 | 8:13 p.m.
Hmmmm, this might not help because I play live full ring, BUT....
I have about 1300 hours logged, and I'd say 30% is PLO. The game I play is a 5 dollar bring in but most people straddle for 10. I am also assuming one buy in= 500 bucks. The average stack in these games are around 1k normally. In that sample My biggest draw down is 30 buy ins. and My longest break even stretch is about 3 months (average like 120ish hours played per month) My observed hourly is in the 30-40/hour range. I Think 50k (100 buy ins) is about the minimum br reqs, but thats for me....it can vary widley based on stuff like borrowing power, other income sources, and monthly nut.
Oct. 13, 2013 | 8:34 a.m.
How many hours would you need to have a comfortable sample size playing live PLO?
Assume most all ins are ran twice. 3000 hours?
Oct. 12, 2013 | 3:43 p.m.
Was just in fort lauderdale/hollywood at the hard rock, hows action at coconut creek? never been. Hard rock hold em was nitty....the PLO was really good tho.
Aug. 27, 2013 | 8:08 a.m.
Such a gross spot, hes never turning AJdd, etc into bluff and jamming river. KJ looks likely but it is odd that he did raise at any point given all the draws....still think you are beat a lot.
Aug. 27, 2013 | 8:03 a.m.
I don't mind betting bigger than normal when playing live. Of course I am bias, I play in a game where UTG will limp for 2 dollars and utg+1 makes it 55, and people check raise paired boards holding a second nut flush draw in full ring omaha....=)
Aug. 27, 2013 | 7:58 a.m.
This is live poker, run over to him, give him a high five and say thanks! Then call. Im going to add nothing new that hasnt already been said by the above posters. I like the "hes young and overweight, probably a grinder, line."
Aug. 27, 2013 | 7:55 a.m.
Hey guys, looking for some advice once again. Just ended a 17.5 hour session. I am in the middle of my biggest drawdown over a statistically significant sample size. I'm wondering what all you would do in this spot? Play lower volatility games, only hold em and no omaha, take a break, or grind thru?
I don't have tilt issues really so I'm a firm believer that taking breaks is sort of overrated. Although I feel the last 2 weeks I have made some speweyish calls/raises that are leading me to believe that perhaps I am not playing my A game 100% of the time.
Any of you math guys want to chime in and look at these numbers and see if they fall under the normal volatility curve or whatever?
I have a logged sample of 1000+ hours. I would say 75-80% of the time spent playing is NLHE, and 20-25% is PLO high only. I play 115 hours per month. Of those 1000 hours, I'd say 10% of them are in a casino setting, and 90% are at home games. The home game rake is 15 dollar max. (I know, crazy...I live in Georgia) The blinds are 1-3. but I would say it plays more like a 2-5 (or sometimes bigger) based on the frequent straddles and money on the table .My observed hourly is $45/hour over the 1000 hours. Within those 1k hours I had a 300 hour break even block where my hourly was -$3.72.=(
Now it gets nasty....In the last 69 hours I have lost 13k (previous biggest drawdown was 6-7k.)
I would say 30% of those hours were playing PLO high only with a 5 and sometimes 10 dollar bring in. I would say 8% of those hours were playing shorthanded PLO with a min 10 straddle max 25 button straddle.
Is this volatility due to the slightly higher PLO stakes I have been playing? I'm not sure, I feel it's a combination of both variance, and poor decision making. Your thoughts on standard deviations?
(Note: I am sufficiently rolled to be playing these games, even after the 13k hit.)
thanks!
Aug. 27, 2013 | 7:52 a.m.
Thanks all so much for the responses. As played, I jammed, player A calls with 8 2 hearts. Player B then tanks....then calls...when he tanks I know I am good...I mean, until he tabled 77! He played the hand so perfectly and didn't even realize it! ha. Big face palm for not betting flop!
Aug. 20, 2013 | 9:26 p.m.
Hey guys, sort of an interesting spot on the river.
To begin, I am in position against a few droolers. The game is built around one of them, player A. Player B is fishy, but not as bad, he values hands after the flop reasonably well but makes huge errors preflop. Player C is the best player of the bunch...his A game is spot on, however he is very tilty and spews if he loses a pot.
We are playing 6 handed and I begin the hand with 1200ish. I raise in position with AJ hearts. I make it 30 (we are playing 2-5) And I get 3 callers. The flop is A55 with 2 clubs and a heart. It checks to me, and 95% of the time I bet, but for some reason I elected to check. The turn brings the 7 of hearts. I have top pair and nut flush draw and it checks to me once more. I bet 85. Player A calls, player B calls, and player C makes it 200 more. Yikes. I elect to call because I have a reasonably disguised backdoor nut flush draw and I feel we are deep enough that I will get paid if I hit since player c is a little tilty and will likely pay me off with trips. Even tho player c is tilty, he just check raised 3 people on a paired board so I am giving him credit for a random 5.
The river is the 9 of hearts which gives me the nut flush. There is roughly 1kish in the pot. Player A leads for 275. He has 350 left. Player B flats the 275 with about 800 left. Player C, the player who check raised the turn, folds his hand. Action is to us. Jam river, or flat?
Aug. 19, 2013 | 8:47 p.m.
Hi, so I play many local games, and it's a constant struggle finding the right combination of action and "reasonable rake"
The lowest rake around town is 10 dollars cap. 10%. The highest raked game I play is 15 in hold em, and 20 in omaha. In your opinion, how much money would need to be on the table to justify the rake? Also, assume the games are very good, not nitfest. The games are normally 2 rounds hold em, and one round omaha.
Any comments and feedback and personal experience with home games are welcome.
Thanks!
Aug. 6, 2013 | 8:28 a.m.
Never underestimate the power of the asian ego.
Aug. 5, 2013 | 5:48 p.m.
I grinded the 65, 100's, 200s and 315s on the cereus network before black friday. It's basically printing money with rakeback. An attainable roi for the hyper turbos is probably in the 1-3% range. It's boring, mindless, and in no way do you improve and develop as a player, that being said...you can make a lot of money. If you are attempting to do SNE, I would go the sng route. You will become a rake generating machine. Learning hyper sit n gos is easy, which is why the edges are miniscule...everyone knows what to do except maybe one player at the table.....the rakeback is your bread and butter.
Aug. 5, 2013 | 5:46 p.m.
Exactly what Tom said.
July 31, 2013 | 4:57 a.m.
I use poker manager...its an app for droid...its like poker journal for the iphone....you can take notes on it, but i normally use it for tracking my sessions...ive played with the same group of guys for a while so I have their capabilities and ranges nailed down pretty hard...but it comes in handy vs new people (player a value bets thin, therfore check raise bluff some rivers, etc)
July 27, 2013 | 12:36 p.m.
Hey guys, I'm going down there for a week or so and would like some opinions on the cash games. I have played in florida a good bit (north, central, and panhandle) but I have never played in south florida (where I hear most of the dead money is?)
I think they just added a 100k buy in tourney, pretty gross.
July 26, 2013 | 5:32 p.m.
Hey guys, just started playing PLO recently, (9 months or so) and many of the local games are spreading 8 or better. I've never played 8 or better or any split pot game for that matter and I was looking for some advice on some good material to start off with.
When I started PLO high only I read Hwangs books and found them pretty helpful.
thanks!
July 26, 2013 | 5:28 p.m.
Jeff Hwang has some good material.
July 23, 2013 | 7 a.m.
Ha! I played mostly PLO too, we were probably at the same table at some point. The game at the horseshoe on friday was really good. Saturday was surprisingly weak, and sunday had some decent action at the goldstrike. First time ever they havent had loads of cash games at the goldstrike in the tournament room. Ridiculous.
July 23, 2013 | 6:58 a.m.
WPO starts friday and main event buy in is 2500 I believe. Tunica is about as interesting as Allen Kessler, but still, decent PLO action.
July 17, 2013 | 6:58 a.m.
I think I should be. I just recently started playing PLO, and I rarely raise pre since the games I play are super loose and no one ever folds a hand preflop. And it just seems PLO disincentivzes preflop raising more than in hold em. When I do raise it's in order to iso heads up or 3 ways with KK or AA, or repot an initial open and attempt to get 1/3 of my stack in if possible. It's easy to get alley oops in the games I play because people open a lot more hands than they prolly should I think.
July 14, 2013 | 5:33 a.m.
Ah yea, was pretty tired when I posted. Akt4. 5 bring in but common for 15 dollar straddles from any position. Preflp 10 straddle and no preflop raises.
July 11, 2013 | 9:12 a.m.
Hey guys...just got home from a live game and I was put in an interesting spot tonight, a spot that normally doesnt occur in relatively shallow PLO home games.
Villain begins hand with 2k. I begin hand with 3500.
We have AcTcKh5h on the button. We see a flop 7 ways and there is 80 dollars in the middle.
(The villain is in the small blind)
The flop comes out kc 5c 3d. (Non nut gutter, nut flush draw, and top pair) the villain checks and another player bets pot, 80. We decide to pot to make it 320 total, perhaps raising full pot isn't as good as raising smaller, but thats of lesser importance....
The small blind COLD calls my pot bet. The small blind is not a fish. He is an adequate player. The original better folds and we see a turn.
6hearts. villain checks. what do you do? He has around 1500ish or so left and the pot now sits at around 800ish.
Do you continue to bet on all turns that dont pair board, or do you slow down and take equity since his cold call is so strong? We have a king for top set blocker so his hand is looking like 555. Thoughts?
July 10, 2013 | 7:02 a.m.
34 hand super interesting
Live, yes, online, I check.
Nov. 7, 2013 | 6:24 a.m.