napsus
63 points
I wanna bring up the topic of PLO rake again...the Great Game of PLO needs to get a haircut when it comes to the cost of the game. The lower stakes are not really beatable enough for money (and players) to flow up the stakes. The stories are not there at the moment, even though it's the most action-filled and exciting game out there. Good times for regs and fun players alike. I'm tired of reading about the rake trap on SSPLO forums. Time for change.
I have brought this up before with PokerStars that PLO rake should more or less equal NLHE rake in terms of bb/100. It's ridiculous that that at lower stakes PLO rake = 2xNLHE rake and few players are moving up, some of them mostly based on variance (bang bang).
Here are threads with discussion and support on the topic:
Rake analysis between PLO & NLHE incl. Zoom
POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!
Petition - PokerStars: Lower the price of PLO Zoom
View: Negreanu should look into the PLO rake situation as promised on J.Ingram Podcast
There's a chance to make a huge difference here.
Dec. 31, 2016 | 6:22 a.m.
tremendous
Dec. 15, 2016 | 5:41 a.m.
Post |
napsus
posted in
Chatter:
Poker Player Snapshot – Leszek “DidYouLikeIt” Badurowicz: “Hand reading got me to midstakes”
Oct. 9, 2015 | 10:44 p.m.
Aug. 15, 2015 | 5:43 p.m.
Post |
napsus
posted in
Chatter:
Poker Player Snapshot: Jack “JackTheLaddd” Mitchell – “6c PLO, that is a naughty game!”
June 23, 2015 | 9:43 p.m.
Post |
napsus
posted in
Chatter:
Poker Player Snapshot: Dylan Linde – “My confidence has never been higher”
June 18, 2015 | 10:16 p.m.
Post |
napsus
posted in
Chatter:
Poker Player Snapshot: Jason Koon – “I’m fascinated and in love with poker”
May 27, 2015 | 10:24 p.m.
Post |
napsus
posted in
Chatter:
Poker Player Snapshot: Robin “Betrob7″ Lindqvist – “I like the freedom poker gives me”
May 10, 2015 | 10:42 p.m.
Post |
napsus
posted in
PLO:
Petition to have PokerStars return Zoom PLO 25/50 and 50/100 to 50bb minimum
please click the link and sign if you agree
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/high-stakes-pl-omaha/petition-have-pokerstars-return-zoom-plo-25-50-50-100-50bb-minimum-1413819/
Feb. 5, 2014 | 1:35 p.m.
very much agreed, past few weeks have been very disappointing in terms of quantity
Jan. 12, 2014 | 2:57 a.m.
Nutblocker's interview series continues with RIO's Sam Lang
http://nutblocker.com/poker-player-snapshot-sam-olangotang-lang-samlang_/
Dec. 8, 2013 | 9:45 a.m.
napsusss on skype. cheers
May 22, 2013 | 4:32 p.m.
Comment |
napsus
commented
on
Link to discussion: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!
Many players , like "Skjervoy" has been very active supporting this case, among with some other high stakes and many many low stakes players. I tried to contact Phil Galfond to get him to support our case but he has yet to show up in the thread or blog about it or what not. I wish he would speak up and shake things up a bit.
Feb. 24, 2013 | 8:02 a.m.
cool idea but i dont know why Sam "tagged down" to ~28 vpip from ~42 vpip that i've witnessed him play always earlier....takes some of the wind of the sails in my opinion
Feb. 16, 2013 | 11:59 a.m.
the preview for this vid seems to be wrong (i'm not an elite member)...i see a fr nl mtt final table by Gawa9
Jan. 22, 2013 | 2:38 a.m.
Comment |
napsus
commented
on
Link to discussion: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!
glad to hear that we agree on a unreasonable high rake :)
Jan. 21, 2013 | 5:59 a.m.
Comment |
napsus
commented
on
Link to discussion: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!
It's not better standard for a few that we are looking for, but a healthier PLO economy. I don't understand how lower rake, bigger timebank maybe and preventing pro ratholing would be bad for recreational players. Quite the opposite.
How exactly is this initiative "throwing away most of its customers (losing players)" ?
How exactly is this initiative "throwing away most of its customers (losing players)" ?
Jan. 17, 2013 | 2:27 p.m.
Post |
napsus
posted in
PLO:
Link to discussion: POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!
Hi,
I have started a thread on 2p2 regarding Pokerstars' treatment of PLO and NLHE within various discussions. They seem to group a lot of issues of PLO and NLHE together, which is obviously very wrong.
I would appreciate your opinions on the link below.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/high-stakes-pl-omaha/pokerstars-time-treat-plo-nlhe-different-games-1289667/
POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!
Dear Pokerstars,
I firmly believe time to aknowledge that PLO and NLHE are two completely different games and the ongoing and future topics of discussions for them should be taken separately. Exactly like you already did with the minimum buy-in and I applaud you for that.
However such things as
1) Rake
2) Time to act at the table
3) Ratholing
still remain topics that are discussed together with NLHE and I believe that is not right.
Few points to get the conversation of the disparency between PLO and NLHE started:
1) Rake:
-the games play different and for example "no flop, no drop" policy doesn't really come to effect since fold to 3 or 4 bets are much smaller than on NLHE for example.
-small stakes PLO pays over 2x times the rake as NLHE played at the same software and equivalent stakes (NL100/PLO100 for example, the lower in stakes you go, the wider the gap gets)
---> this calls for a completely different rake structure since the current situation (at low stakes especially) is not sustainable. In fact it's absurd.
....if Pokerstars still thinks PLO should have the same rake structure as NLHE, then we demand for same rake bb/100 as NLHE. Yes, Pokerstars might not look at the rake issue like this, but we players do. We measure winrate, risk (standard deviation) in bb/100, as we do with cost of the game. This is something that Pokerstars needs to seriously consider to keep the games beatable and sustainable.
Petition to Pokerstars to reduce the PLO cash game rake
2) Time to act at the table
-for example PLO pre-flop action is more complex than at NLHE and requires more thought.
...this is especially the case at the deep tables.
-HSPLO opinion on the matter was asked, players gave their opinions and majority (according to my perception) was against faster tables and preferred normal speed tables.
PokerStars Announcement: Changes to ‘Time to Act’ in Ring Games
HSPLO discusses the new time to act rules
3) Ratholing
- The structural edge by shorting in PLO is bigger than at NLHE
- The community voted for 50bb minimum buy-in tables and I still believe that would be there right thing to do.
- The ratholing issues are important to fix as long as it doesn't take away table selection. Without table selection the rake will make even more games unbeatable.
Open Discussion: Ratholing, Table/Seat Selecting, and More!
PLO players, please voice your opinions and discuss.
Many thanks and best regards,
napsus
I have started a thread on 2p2 regarding Pokerstars' treatment of PLO and NLHE within various discussions. They seem to group a lot of issues of PLO and NLHE together, which is obviously very wrong.
I would appreciate your opinions on the link below.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/153/high-stakes-pl-omaha/pokerstars-time-treat-plo-nlhe-different-games-1289667/
POKERSTARS: Time to treat PLO and NLHE as different games!
Dear Pokerstars,
I firmly believe time to aknowledge that PLO and NLHE are two completely different games and the ongoing and future topics of discussions for them should be taken separately. Exactly like you already did with the minimum buy-in and I applaud you for that.
However such things as
1) Rake
2) Time to act at the table
3) Ratholing
still remain topics that are discussed together with NLHE and I believe that is not right.
Few points to get the conversation of the disparency between PLO and NLHE started:
1) Rake:
-the games play different and for example "no flop, no drop" policy doesn't really come to effect since fold to 3 or 4 bets are much smaller than on NLHE for example.
-small stakes PLO pays over 2x times the rake as NLHE played at the same software and equivalent stakes (NL100/PLO100 for example, the lower in stakes you go, the wider the gap gets)
---> this calls for a completely different rake structure since the current situation (at low stakes especially) is not sustainable. In fact it's absurd.
....if Pokerstars still thinks PLO should have the same rake structure as NLHE, then we demand for same rake bb/100 as NLHE. Yes, Pokerstars might not look at the rake issue like this, but we players do. We measure winrate, risk (standard deviation) in bb/100, as we do with cost of the game. This is something that Pokerstars needs to seriously consider to keep the games beatable and sustainable.
Petition to Pokerstars to reduce the PLO cash game rake
2) Time to act at the table
-for example PLO pre-flop action is more complex than at NLHE and requires more thought.
...this is especially the case at the deep tables.
-HSPLO opinion on the matter was asked, players gave their opinions and majority (according to my perception) was against faster tables and preferred normal speed tables.
PokerStars Announcement: Changes to ‘Time to Act’ in Ring Games
HSPLO discusses the new time to act rules
3) Ratholing
- The structural edge by shorting in PLO is bigger than at NLHE
- The community voted for 50bb minimum buy-in tables and I still believe that would be there right thing to do.
- The ratholing issues are important to fix as long as it doesn't take away table selection. Without table selection the rake will make even more games unbeatable.
Open Discussion: Ratholing, Table/Seat Selecting, and More!
PLO players, please voice your opinions and discuss.
Many thanks and best regards,
napsus
Jan. 16, 2013 | 2 p.m.
kudos and salutations!
Jan. 15, 2013 | 2:45 a.m.
post positional stats, much easier to give tips. but looks like you go to showdown too much to begin with
Dec. 10, 2012 | 11:58 a.m.
no-brainer to finish university. i don't know how the system in the UK works but thinking back my university times, I would have had plenty of time to grind poker on the side. plus it's very important to have something other going on besides poker....plus college will likely be one the better times of your life; the social aspect, parties, randomly meeting cool, new people in classes, uni cafe etc....it just isn't the same afterwards university anymore. i would definitely stay.
Dec. 9, 2012 | 2:58 a.m.
exploitation shmesploitation....it's all about GTO yo.
Dec. 8, 2012 | 3:03 a.m.
didnt mean to say "when i add equity"...meant to say that on high cards i would see his action and decide thereafter.
Nov. 8, 2012 | 9:19 a.m.
BB: $102.73
SB: $187.34
SB: $187.34
villain is unknown to me, he sat down to start a 6m table with me. he had 3bet both times possible and cbet them both too.
Preflop
($1.50)
(2 Players)
Hero was dealt
9
T
J
5
Hero raises to $2.50, BB raises to $7.50, Hero calls $5.00
Hero raises to $2.50, BB raises to $7.50, Hero calls $5.00
Flop
($16.50)
K
J
5
(2 Players)
BB bets $10.00,
Hero calls $10.00
i float with a plan to ship over a turn cbet on (semi-) bricks and when i add equity. i see floating flop as a better option than raising his cbet. agree?
Turn
($36.50)
K
J
5
6
(2 Players)
BB bets $28.00,
Hero raises to $118.50,
BB calls $57.23
turn bricks so i ship. this ok?
Nov. 8, 2012 | 9:16 a.m.
Load more
Looking forward to this one.
July 20, 2019 | 12:31 a.m.