flatbreadpizza

Teddy,
Its important to understand that gto is the strategy that makes the most moneyif your opponent always chooses the perfect counterstrategy. This will almost never be breaking even.

As for your question, the answer is no, finding gto from the flop onwards for 100% vs 100% will result in a game tree so large no computer could solve it. Solving gto on the river is very doable though.

If the river is always a blank, opponent is bluffcatching, and the river is always a blank, you think of your river bluffs as being the nuts on the turn. This is because he is indifferent to calling the river. So if you are potting turn and river with 30% nuts, you will have 15% river bluffs. This makes for 45% total so you want to have 22.5% turn bluffs that you give up with.

Your more specific questions dependmtoo much on the actual equity distribution on the river cards

Eyedea is my favorite battle rapper of all time. What did you think of Prey For Paralysis? I think Kristoff Krane makes some pretty terrible (though creative) records by himself but love everything he does with Sadistik. I think MF Doom is one of the worst rappers out there. Other than that I enjoyed your links.

Stuff in the theuad's realm
Sadistik and Kristoff--Bad Timing-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RyVCEBjmGY
Copywrite--Hear Me Though- www.youtube.com/watch?v=1laks32SW3I
Eyedea vs PEACE-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BjmAPoqpwLE
Eyedea and Slg on sway-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40MA0pl7Oa0

Top 5 rappers of all time (no order)
Lupe- Super Lupe Lyrical rap. wordplay outa control-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaDZyO-w9pQ
Big L--Fed up Wit the bullshit He's just better than almost every other rapper in every skill of MCing--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmlRcCVm8Qw
Elzhi-- Brag Swag-- The most underrated MC of this era. Good to see him get some shine with Elmatic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKcrIGj387w
Nas--I gave you Power--I think this is my favorite hip hop song of all time-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXAtUR80IOQ
Kool G Rap--Number 1 with a bullet-- 80% of the best rappers all sound a little like Kool G Rap IMO especially Elzhi, Big L, and NAs-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCVUVEFuBRQ

fml I wanted to wait a couple months before I subscribed again.

I disagree with this only because this deep versus his super wide range I'm ranking QTs as one of the strongest hands, better than a hand like kqo

Seems like calling the flop raising the turn is the only play here. I like raising smaller than all in and calling it off since it is a decent place to raise small and fold if we floated flop and he barrels turn too much.

I mean if you just knew you were beat, which you probably did since your reads on him are deeper than anything you can share in a post, then I can't really argue against it. I think in general we are just getting too good of odds on a call and with our 3 blocker, it doesn't really matter if he's rarely bluffing we still can call.

This makes no sense to me. Our line wouldn't be representing hearts at all so I don't see how a heart is especially unlikely to get action. We are balancing our range more by putting a hand like this in our check/call range and then having more nutty hands on 14 rivers where normally his line is consistent with backdoor hearts and ours isn't. If you really think that line gets nothing but folds (which it doesn't imo) then it's a fistpump check/call and check/raise bluff any river. Also inducing from all floats is pretty cool and when he checks behind and we hit the river we are getting called on the river near 100% vs most people.

How does everybody know what hero has here? I'm not seeing it anywhere.

If I can offer my honest opinion, I think you guys made a bad system worse. I'm not talking about in fairness for those competing, but from your end for what you are trying to do with this (which is grow the site). The goal should be not to most accurately measure who the top 5 are. The goal should be to create incentive for participation in the forum. Afterall, creating an active forum can make all of us more money than the 100$ free membership in EV.

To me I don't really even get why you are trying to do this on a point system. It would be easier, more fair and uncheatable if you just had the instructors choose posters of the month subjectively. STill giving points is based on the old system is still cool because even giving people non monetary points is positive and the old one it was easier to get points. Also I think you accomplish more by giving 20 people half off their membership or giving 40 people a basic membership or 10 off than being so top heavy with it.

If I were trying to grow this site, I'd have a high stakes, midstakes, and lowstakes poster of the month who gets a free elite membership, honorable mention prizes of some kind for 3 other high stakes posters, 10 midstakes, and 25 low stakes posters. Also keeping a record of the month by month winners is cool too.

I agree with James on both hands. No matter what he shows up with I think his line is terrible and we will want to use the info to exploit him next time he does this and when he doesn't lead.
Hand 2 I don't see any reason to check behind on the flop when he checks to you. If he is checking air you are giving him free cards and you are giving yourself a harder time barreling him off his TT 88 type hands.

I agree with Mike that we gotta be check/calilng trn. I like a check/fold on the river since he'll be showdown bound with all his worse hands and he you folded out all his air with your turn bet. As played it's a fold on the river. Your hand looks so strong and he can't really be bluffing

I think a turn check/call is going to be so much more profitable than a barrel if he is ever floating and especially if he is showdown bound with his A highs.

HATE betting that large. I believe the 2 most common situations range vs range on the river are1. One where our range wants to increase the profit from our nuttish range and allow us to bet teh most combos of air2. One where our range wants to get the most value without causing too many folds from the lower part of villians range that causes us to be valuecutting ourselves too much with hands we'd like to valuebet and getting worst odds on our bluffs. This is clearly the latter case imo.

We really don't have enough airish hands in our range to even easily construct a balanced range and a lot of the times our opponent will have AQ AJ AT here when we do have air or are turning 77 into a bluff and we will want to give ourselves a good price and just target his tx ect. range to get value from. We don't want to take a hand like AJ and valuecut ourselves while getting more folds out of his weaker parts of his range. IF we want to have a large bet range on the river it should be very polorized and rare so AJ should definately not be in it.

I disagree that we should fold the turn. A lot of live feely players are not barreling JJ here and a lot of them are going to be giving up the river too much with their bluffs.

Since you said he is a feel type player in a live game so we just need to be on his level. To me the most relevant read we can have here is his preflop 3betting range here. How wide is it? If I think he is 3betting super super wide I'm basically never folding to a big bet since he will have air so much more often that even if it isn't super likely he is barreling the turn and the river with a lot of these hands he'll still show up with air enough. I suspect it isn't wide enough though and his betsizing is such that he is almost always valuebetting. Do you think he is capable of making a play like this to represent a vbet AND does he know you are capable of folding to that for those reasons? More good live players than not are not going to be doing that ever and he has to know you well to want to go for that play even if he was capable so I definitely lean towards a river fold

I like the line. I don't think your hand is transparent at all. It looks like we are basically at the bare bottom of our range on the river. I think this is definitely a spot where we can click call vs some over aggro players but even then it's nice to make some folds when we are still at the bottom of our range so they don't adjust.

I like barreling here. I think given most people's ranges here we are going to want to be barreling here a lot. Since I don't expect him to have floats here ever I don't see any reason to even have much of a check/call range here.

Lupe Fiasco-Put You on Game The dark resolution to his classic concept album The Cool. Greatest hip hop album of all time IMO.

Jason koon had some icm talk. In the larger field tournaments icm isnt that important.

I like a call-down. He could very easily barrel the turn with somekind of gutty and decide to ship it in on this river. It looks like you can have a q. Your A-blocker cuts down on his value range a bit.

And I agree with a 4bet pre. I think AJ plays well to call vs some people but 14%ish 3bet range isn't quite wide enough without strong postflop reasons to flat IMO

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I know it has already been touched on in the thread but this idea of threshholds to stop our opponent from autoprofiting ithat has beena running theme inthese videos have nothing to do with gto (except that it happens to give us gto on the river against polorized ranges with enough air hands in our opponemts range and we have nothing but bluffcatchers in our range). I dont think this number is completely useless as being way below these threshholds certainly is evidence that we may be very exploitabl, but I do not think on early streets we can even call these a decent aproximation. I feel this may be just anissue of semantics where you limit gto to just the game of polorized vs bluffcatchers but we must realize that there is way more to gto than this. For example, when you respond to zizeks post regarding ranges being too strong saying that gto breaks down and we should take an exploitative approach, this is just nottrue. When range vs rangeis dominated, the gto strategy will be to give up a ton. To me the idea of a minimum defence frequency is a dangerous one as people may be getting the idea that these are good aproximations of GTO when in most of the cases they are the wrong way to think about gto and very dangerous if one uses it to make general strategy adjustments to one's game.

Edit: I just want to reiterate that I dont really think you are wrong with most of your theory except in associating mdf with gto. Mdf can be a very useful stat when used correctly (which I believe you do for the most part in these videos). I just believe its very limiting to what gto is to even call it gto and dangerous if one believes it is how one should think about gto.

I must say to defend op intuition that EV in my equation is the EV of the hand before the action starts if we choose to not fast fold it. We can consider the ev of opening the button when folded to which is different and strictly greater than the what I laabeled EV. If the ev when fold3d to ismthe same as EV utg accorring to my estimate of how often it gets folded to us we only get our ev 50% of the time. Op used time saved by fastfolding as part of his argument however which must be wrong based on my arguments above. I suspect that the average time to play a small ev hand utg may still be twice as large as not fast folding a small ev hand otb however making his conclusion still Iincorrect even with these considerations.

.Edit: I also want to add that the 2.5 in my fast fold equation comes from assuming 250 hands per hour ( and a factor of 100 in the equation) so just as W is a function of how many fast folds we make so is this 2.5 part of the equation dependent.

14% ofplaying postflop not 16%. I dont want to edit it because everytime I edit my posts it gets rid of my spaces wnd enters between paragraphs making it harder to read.

Its disapointimg to see this much handwaving and no maths. Imwant to make the argument that we should pass up less edges in later than early positions contrary to intuition iin op.

Let t be the average time saved by fast folding in seconds for a particular hand. Let W be winrate in bbs/100. Let EV be the ev of playing a hand.

W * t * 2.5 / (60 * 60) > EV is the equation to let us know if we should fast fold a hand Or play it through. Important to note that winrate is a function of how many small edges one gives up.

Now let us consider utg and button to see if we should be more likely to pass up one or the other. We will assume the same small ev edge. Of course winrate is just our winrate in the game so time is obv the only consideration.

There are 4 outcomes from the button when stealing or folding to an open which are utg opens, mp opens, co opens, or we play out our hand.

Ill guess at some stats since I dont have any zoom in my database. Ill give chancee of opening when folded to of 15% 20% and 30% for the three positions. This gives us a 85%*80%*70%=48% chance of being folded to. I wantto guess at a 70% chance of stealing the blinds in zoom (someone please give some numbers from their database). This leaves a 16% chance of playing postflop.

Now for utg. I will have an even harder time guessimg flat call numbers given our utg open so im wont even try but I want to say it is a decent chunk larger than 16%. So we play postflop more from the thin utg spot, an argument for utg being a larger average t. When we dont go postflop, action from utg goes open and steal blinds or open then a 3bet while from button it goes open then we fast fold half the time and fast fold then steal blinds the other timee I think given that we dont see a flop because we have 5 players to potentialy make a move other than fast fold these hands go faster from the button aalso which makes itvery very likely that it is better to be passing up edges from utg than the button.

Open utg can't be good if you think hes 3betting light enough to be able to call a 3bet.

I like your line and sizing throughout the hand.

Pretty gross spot. I like a fold though. He would have to be turning a high into a bluff and you certainly can't discount kj qj taking a check flop line completely. I dont hate a call but just chip ev wise I feel this is a really gross fold.

I like a fold on the flop. A tendency to not 3bet from the sb or not 3bet much in general might chnage my mind but I don't expect him to have worse for value ever, IThere really aren't that many potential semibluffs in his range. I don't expect him to slow down if he is bluffing and we are going to have a hard time calling down, and sb flatting ranges are narrower so that he has 99 88 here more often than in most situations. I think this is a spot where c/r stat doens't mean much. As played I like a fold on the turn too. T9dd jtdd may slowsdown and his very small range of diamonds AQdd AJdd a9dd? qjdd? Turned more equity almost always and our hand only stands to get worse on the river

I'm very confused by this hh

I enjoyed it lol