aTRIBE calledQUEST
0 points
BN: 340725
SB: 669300 (Hero)
BB: 561372
UTG: 282379
HJ: 475584
CO: 148640
SB: 669300 (Hero)
BB: 561372
UTG: 282379
HJ: 475584
CO: 148640
BB and UTG are the only good players at this table. The rest are very weak.
Preflop
(15000)
(6 Players)
Hero was dealt
8
9
UTG folds, HJ folds, CO folds, BN folds, Hero raises to 25000, BB calls 15000
UTG folds, HJ folds, CO folds, BN folds, Hero raises to 25000, BB calls 15000
I had just won and built my stack. So I am playing with momentum here and this is (I think) my first time I raise his BB. We haven't got to this point because of people being active.
Flop
(55000)
8
9
4
(2 Players)
Hero bets 31555,
BB calls 31555
Turn
(118110)
8
9
4
K
(2 Players)
Hero bets 68555,
BB calls 68555
River
(255220)
8
9
4
K
7
(2 Players)
Hero bets 125555
Jan. 11, 2013 | 4:11 a.m.
It's not about "nitting up". Trust me. That isn't my problem hehe. I before the move to that country would of slapped me hard if this thread was read. But I have experience from the games now. The thing is that this spot is very good. I believe that you can't only look at a single handsin tournaments. Specially this one. This is one of those super rare situations where the stack is going in almost always. But in this field, with my edge, I think that not going up against a flipping range might be > than doing it. Because we're not getting into this spot, in this tournament often enough.
By folding this; I am still playing alot of hands. Because I fold AKs doesn't mean that I can't play something much worse the very next hand. And that is the point. I don't think it's bad anymore to choose your spots in a tournament if you have a super great spot. The next hand I could be playing JT vs bb J2s on J56. And getting his stack there. It is on that level when they have hit. And that is also why I am thinking about folding AKs there. On .eu I would be dancing my way on the call button (I sometimes do that). But here. I still think it's close.
By folding this; I am still playing alot of hands. Because I fold AKs doesn't mean that I can't play something much worse the very next hand. And that is the point. I don't think it's bad anymore to choose your spots in a tournament if you have a super great spot. The next hand I could be playing JT vs bb J2s on J56. And getting his stack there. It is on that level when they have hit. And that is also why I am thinking about folding AKs there. On .eu I would be dancing my way on the call button (I sometimes do that). But here. I still think it's close.
Jan. 11, 2013 | 4:07 a.m.
He is never shipping over with 66. This isn't pokerstars.eu! :P
Jan. 11, 2013 | 3:58 a.m.
Well I agree with this. When he put his scuba diving gear on and went in to the tank I started thinking about what I would do if he folded. I decided that I thought fold, crazy enough, was better since our spot in this tournament is so great that it wasn't worth getting it in vs his flip-range. But then at the same time. If I win I have a great stack and that 17bb stack is still such a good spot. So I called!
I think both options are good obv. Calling and folding. Many of my friends think fold when I tell them how soft it is.
I think both options are good obv. Calling and folding. Many of my friends think fold when I tell them how soft it is.
Jan. 11, 2013 | 3:58 a.m.
Guys thank you for the answers! I appriciate them all :)!
Grayson: You would >>think<< that that is his range. Your "thought" is based on your experience. But your experience hasn't experienced this closed market that I have. Trust me. I am giving you his range, based on my experience the last 6-7 months of playing in that market/site.
But I understand why you, and everybody else here is reacting like this. It took me time aswell to undestand their ranges. We are talking about players calling 3bets with 10bb stack and folding. We are talking about players leaving themselves with 2bb like it's normal. We are talking about players anteing down from 8bb to a half of ante because "they are card dead". 77, ATs, even 88, probably even 99. The general play is probably to call there. I know it sounds crazy. But trust me. Let's make a decision after this range: 88+,AJs+,AQo+.
Is it still worth it? In a super soft field. Think about it like die hard. Simon says your gonna take candy from kids and you look around the corner and find a kidergarden school that just came out of a candy store. That level.
Isn't the spot worth keeping more than to just look at the actual hand?
Grayson: You would >>think<< that that is his range. Your "thought" is based on your experience. But your experience hasn't experienced this closed market that I have. Trust me. I am giving you his range, based on my experience the last 6-7 months of playing in that market/site.
But I understand why you, and everybody else here is reacting like this. It took me time aswell to undestand their ranges. We are talking about players calling 3bets with 10bb stack and folding. We are talking about players leaving themselves with 2bb like it's normal. We are talking about players anteing down from 8bb to a half of ante because "they are card dead". 77, ATs, even 88, probably even 99. The general play is probably to call there. I know it sounds crazy. But trust me. Let's make a decision after this range: 88+,AJs+,AQo+.
Is it still worth it? In a super soft field. Think about it like die hard. Simon says your gonna take candy from kids and you look around the corner and find a kidergarden school that just came out of a candy store. That level.
Isn't the spot worth keeping more than to just look at the actual hand?
Jan. 11, 2013 | 3:54 a.m.
You lucky Swede :D
Dec. 18, 2012 | 5:32 p.m.
Yes I understand that and I don't mind increasing it this way. But I think it's a different kind of increase in variance by calling here and playing IP against a straight up and defined range than to call of 30bb. It's one thing if I've invested more chips into the pot. Then I gotta go with it. But we're in it for so little and are in such a great spot in the tournament with 47,5bb if we fold, top 12.
I agree that if I fold I am giving up a good spot. Because even if I loose the flip I have about 18bb left which still is a good spot. But I think that our stack in this tournament is an even greater spot full of possibility. I mean all of this comming from me is really crazy. Those extra 45bb are super-good for our stack. It is for anybodys stack and a couple of months ago I would be doing the macarena meanwhile snapping it off. Now I realize that you don't always end up in this spot. If good spots are comming across your way all the time, then you maybe don't need to take everyone of them.
But still nice to hear that you guys also could consider folding.
I agree that if I fold I am giving up a good spot. Because even if I loose the flip I have about 18bb left which still is a good spot. But I think that our stack in this tournament is an even greater spot full of possibility. I mean all of this comming from me is really crazy. Those extra 45bb are super-good for our stack. It is for anybodys stack and a couple of months ago I would be doing the macarena meanwhile snapping it off. Now I realize that you don't always end up in this spot. If good spots are comming across your way all the time, then you maybe don't need to take everyone of them.
But still nice to hear that you guys also could consider folding.
Dec. 18, 2012 | 5:32 p.m.
I agree that my range is way ahead of the SB shove. But 30bb tank/shove I think I at best have 52%. I agree that I most often am ahead against the SB shove and the call can be motivated by the fact that our hand is so beautifully disguised. But the situation rapidly changes when hijack tank/shoves. It is a tournament and things like this happen.
I didn't 3bet because as soon as he raised with his stack deep I felt that it was a good spot to 3bet as a bluff and take it down pre/post. His range is wide there and I don't mind getting him to the flop with a weaker range meanwhile I have three potential move-makers behind me since I've desguised my hand. The lines these guys take post-flop make their range so defined that I often enough can narrow it down and play well enough postflop that I think a call is good.
The problem is that, even if I win this flip (putting 30bb in the hands of luck) and gain those extra 45bb. My strategy will be exactly the same as if I have a 50bb stack since I am covering everybody at the table. I will gain my chips slowly. Play people in position and take great value.
I think that this situation is special because I almost always 3bet there. This time, given the fact that I had perfect re-shove stacks behind me, I felt call was better. And we end up in this situation.
I didn't 3bet because as soon as he raised with his stack deep I felt that it was a good spot to 3bet as a bluff and take it down pre/post. His range is wide there and I don't mind getting him to the flop with a weaker range meanwhile I have three potential move-makers behind me since I've desguised my hand. The lines these guys take post-flop make their range so defined that I often enough can narrow it down and play well enough postflop that I think a call is good.
The problem is that, even if I win this flip (putting 30bb in the hands of luck) and gain those extra 45bb. My strategy will be exactly the same as if I have a 50bb stack since I am covering everybody at the table. I will gain my chips slowly. Play people in position and take great value.
I think that this situation is special because I almost always 3bet there. This time, given the fact that I had perfect re-shove stacks behind me, I felt call was better. And we end up in this situation.
Dec. 18, 2012 | 5:19 p.m.
Hi runitonce. Decided to sign up for this site and check it out. I have never discussed theory on a forum before so thought I'd give this a try.
First of all I have to start by saying that I am not crazy. Nor am I a nit. Read the info, put the "Lol you have AKs, never fold" voice on silence for a minute and just give this hand a different kind of view than "lol std".
I am playing at a non .eu site where the game and value is different from for instance pokerstars.eu. None of the great regs are on this site. I might be the best, or at least top 3 best tournaments players on this site. People are extremly bad and it actually took me longer than I though to readjust from the lag/taking-every-spot play I have in the .eu sites. To thighten up and super-explo take value from people. You will always get called.
Tournament info: We are 38 people left in one of their sunday "majors". It's a 100 euro bi 80k deep stack tournament.
Table: is extremely soft as the rest of the field but I got here 3 hands ago.
Hero on CO: 50bb
Hand: AKs
Action: Hijack (32bb stack) raises 2,5BB. Hero has 50bb on CO. BTN has 20bb, SB has 15bb and BB has 17BB. So hero calls hoping that somebody will make a move or just play post. SB shoves in for his 15bb. Hijack tanks 20 sec and shoves 32bb. Hero ??
My thoughts: When he got into the tank I started thinking about his range if he shoves. My logic says: "AKs, wiiee", specially because I have desguised my hand, but something within me feels wrong about just making a snap decision. Because only generelly on how people reason in this country/site. I think his range is down to 99+, AQs, AQo. Just to please the people who say that he can wake up with some kind of AJspew I added some hands and gave him this range: 88+,AJs+,AQo+. I am being generous about his range.
Against that range we have 51,782%. I don't think calling is EV-. But I think folding here is a better decision since we are in a very good spot in a super soft tournament. I am well aware of the fact that even if we loose, we will still have 18-20bb which I am very very comfertable with. But in this site you could raise J9 and flop JT4, turn 8, river 5 and most of these guys will give you two bigbet-streets of value, or three smaller bets of value with T7o. So having a 50bb stack, with 38 people left, in a tourament like this is like having money in very safe stocks. You will increase your stack steadily. But you have to be patient with the spots since nobody is folding.
Is it really worth calling AKs and being up against Hijacks 48,2% when we could fold, keep our stack, and steadily increase it? Our spot is so great and in a tournament with over thousand people I am not gonna get there often enough to just coinflip for 30bb. I think our stack and spot is worth much more keeping and steadily gaining chips than to just get it in.
What do you guys think? Does it sound to crazy or is there some logic here?
First of all I have to start by saying that I am not crazy. Nor am I a nit. Read the info, put the "Lol you have AKs, never fold" voice on silence for a minute and just give this hand a different kind of view than "lol std".
I am playing at a non .eu site where the game and value is different from for instance pokerstars.eu. None of the great regs are on this site. I might be the best, or at least top 3 best tournaments players on this site. People are extremly bad and it actually took me longer than I though to readjust from the lag/taking-every-spot play I have in the .eu sites. To thighten up and super-explo take value from people. You will always get called.
Tournament info: We are 38 people left in one of their sunday "majors". It's a 100 euro bi 80k deep stack tournament.
Table: is extremely soft as the rest of the field but I got here 3 hands ago.
Hero on CO: 50bb
Hand: AKs
Action: Hijack (32bb stack) raises 2,5BB. Hero has 50bb on CO. BTN has 20bb, SB has 15bb and BB has 17BB. So hero calls hoping that somebody will make a move or just play post. SB shoves in for his 15bb. Hijack tanks 20 sec and shoves 32bb. Hero ??
My thoughts: When he got into the tank I started thinking about his range if he shoves. My logic says: "AKs, wiiee", specially because I have desguised my hand, but something within me feels wrong about just making a snap decision. Because only generelly on how people reason in this country/site. I think his range is down to 99+, AQs, AQo. Just to please the people who say that he can wake up with some kind of AJspew I added some hands and gave him this range: 88+,AJs+,AQo+. I am being generous about his range.
Against that range we have 51,782%. I don't think calling is EV-. But I think folding here is a better decision since we are in a very good spot in a super soft tournament. I am well aware of the fact that even if we loose, we will still have 18-20bb which I am very very comfertable with. But in this site you could raise J9 and flop JT4, turn 8, river 5 and most of these guys will give you two bigbet-streets of value, or three smaller bets of value with T7o. So having a 50bb stack, with 38 people left, in a tourament like this is like having money in very safe stocks. You will increase your stack steadily. But you have to be patient with the spots since nobody is folding.
Is it really worth calling AKs and being up against Hijacks 48,2% when we could fold, keep our stack, and steadily increase it? Our spot is so great and in a tournament with over thousand people I am not gonna get there often enough to just coinflip for 30bb. I think our stack and spot is worth much more keeping and steadily gaining chips than to just get it in.
What do you guys think? Does it sound to crazy or is there some logic here?
Dec. 18, 2012 | 4:04 a.m.
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Jan. 11, 2013 | 4:34 a.m.