Deep Preflop OOP w/AAJ2r

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Deep Preflop OOP w/AAJ2r

CO: $74.34
BN: $451.52
SB: $90.11
BB: $189.68 (Hero)
HJ: $190.25
Preflop ($1.50) (5 Players)
Hero was dealt 2 J A A
HJ folds, CO raises to $2.50, BN raises to $9, SB folds, Hero raises to $30, CO raises to $74.34, and is all in, BN raises to $253.52, Hero calls $159.68, and is all in
Flop ($530.54) 2 T 2 (3 Players)
Turn ($530.54) 2 T 2 4 (3 Players)
River ($530.54) 2 T 2 4 J (3 Players)

So a rec player opens CO and good reg 3bets the BN to iso him. SB folds and we have a decision to make. My image is fairly aggro and the BN reg can perceive me to be 4betting wider than usual in this spot. He could definitely 5b ds KKxx or AKKds. Reg's range is probably quite wide here with all sorts of rundowns and stuff. 

I don't really expect the CO rec player to 4b, but sometimes call and sometimes fold. 

If both players call our 4b, the pot will be 90 or so and spr will be around 1.7. If CO folds, we will be in an ugly low visibility spot with a pot of 65 or so and spr of close to 3. 

I can't imagine folding vs these ranges, but calling sucks too. We basically have to fold every time we don't flop an Ace and I don't think we have enough implied odds to just call. 

So, we have to 4b right? As played I did and fortunately they both jammed but I'm not sure about the play.

7 Comments

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Suniram 10 years, 3 months ago

I'm by no means an expert in (deep) preflop spots but I'd coldcall here. 4betting and getting just getting called leads to soo many spots with low visibility and relativly high SPR which can and will be extremly costly. 
By calling we either will be very happy if either CO 4bets or CO calls and BTN 4bets (could do this with good KK since we don't rep strong) or we get to play a smaller pot OOP. Ofc we will have to give up quite often since our AA is really bad, but there is still some flops we can play well on. A-high, straights, paired (esp low-paired). Not to forget about our blockers which will work pretty well since after cold-calling a 3bet we are more likely to have the suited ace than simply the blocker(s).

Again, take it with a grain of salt. 

spassewr 10 years, 3 months ago

i normally play deep, and cold 4b most of my AA. doubt id 4b these ones tho if the only argument is that he may widen his 5b range to prem KK. the hands you listed (KKds) will only make up 1,5% of a 15-20% range. add all AKK and it goes up to 3% of his original 3b range. i think most players, even if theyre aggro and capable of 4/5betting wider will just take a flop with ABB$ds. that means that close to 95% of the time, we will see a flop with these AA in a 3way pot with an SPR of 1.7, or 2way SPR 3. neither sounds tempting.

also agree with Suniram that there are other, prob around 10-25% of non Axx flops where we can either play well by value-checking or bluff. doesnt sound that much, and ofc 4b may be profitable i just think its really marginal and if they play well in 4b pots i doubt were making any money post flop (after the tiny bit of eq we push pre).

if he 5bets all KK and all ABB then his 5b% goes up to 20% of the time, this sounds much more attractive.

so im not saying its bad to 4b here, im just saying i wouldnt do it and i dont think its the best option imo, and we definitely do not have to 4b



CustomSuited 10 years, 3 months ago

Yeah, I agree calling isn't as bad as I initially thought due to possible bluff spots. In fact I now think calling is probably close in ev to a 4b here and a 4b is way higher variance. 

Do we ever consider folding this kind of a spot? Like if we have maybe AA72r? Or is that still a call? 

Suniram 10 years, 3 months ago

I would never fold here. The chance over oversetting, making the nutstr8 vs a lower one + our blockers is enough for me here.

spassewr 10 years, 3 months ago

I guess in extreme situations with the worst off suit aces vs two very strong players a fold may be best. 

We make money in one of two ways when we are dealt this hand.

1) pushing eq (more so by 4betting)

2) calling pre and having villains play poorly vs our range (they try to rep Axx boards and low dry boards and we may be able to steal the pot/protect our hand and take it down vs weakness on messy boards).

Stacks will usually be a) shallow enough to prefer 4betting or b) deep enough to flat and set mine/bluffcatch on dry boards or x-jam w like AA2 on 853r.

But oop against two skilled players who wont over-rep AA or pay off too lite where stacks are too shallow to make set mining profitable and too deep to consider 4betting an attractive option i guess there are spot where we could fold AA72r pre.

hotkahuna2 10 years, 3 months ago

i like a call pre i think the best aspect to this play is it makes the co so much more likely to repot with hands we crush- leading the button to try and iso… and then the hand becomes very easy to play… not saying 4 betting is bad but i think it has slightly less expectation and is way higher variance

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