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4Betting IP - Right choice in this case?

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Posted by posted in Mid Stakes

4Betting IP - Right choice in this case?

Blinds: $2.00/$4.00 (6 Players) CO: $400.00 (Hero)
BN: $936.14
SB: $400.00
BB: $449.50
UTG: $806.86
MP: $159.50
ME: I will open here about 30% of my hands
BU: 92 Hands: 52/11 Stats with 11% 3B IP
BB: 39/29 with 17/12 3B IP/OOP, Saw him Squeeze KJT8ss in a spot like this
76% Cbet Stat in 3Bet Pots OOP
Preflop ($6.00) Hero is CO with K K 4 2
MP folds, Hero raises to $12.00, BN calls $12.00, BB folds, UTG raises to $50.00, Hero raises to $164.00, BN folds, UTG raises to $506.00, Hero calls $236.00 and is all in

Hey guys,
i find that i haven’t put in enough time to think about 4Betting in general and how to adjust my range to certain 3Betting ranges. So i tried to analyse a hand i played some days ago:
In this hand a very frequent 3Bettor squeezes in a spot, which i considered as a pretty good spot for him to 3Bet:
- i open a relatively wide range in the Cutoff
- a lose player OTB just flats
I would probably give him here approximately a 10% squeezing range
Preflop i have 2 choices imo:
(a) 4Betting
Assumption: 4betting will lead to a fold of the Button
I assigned the BB a 10% 3Betting range in Pokerjuice:
KK24ddss 54% - $3B10o 46%
Breaking this range down into a non AAxx part and a AA part:
(1) He should have AAxx about 21.5% of the time P(1)=0.215
KK24ddss 33.2% - $3B10o:AA 66.8%
In this case, he will 5Bet and i have to call it off: EV(1) = 0.332 * 426$ - 0,668 * 388$ = - 118$
(2): Non AAxx: P(2)=0.785
KK24ddss 60% - $3B10o!AA 40%
2.a: I 4Bet and he folds:
He has a Fold vs 4Bet Stat of 18% ( i only have about 1.8k hands against him). Given that he has probably a tighter 3Bet range here than in general (cause he is OOP) i would assume it is probably around 10% here.

EV (2.a) = 2*12$+2$+50$=76$

2.b: I 4Bet,he calls:
Pot:342$
Stack: 236$
Okay, this is pretty tough. He probably puts me on this range KK:ds,AKK:ww,AA
WIth the range i worked with, he will have enough equity 64.1% of the time with an average equity of 52.7% (i assume this to be more like 54% as my actual hand is very much at the bottom of this range)
(Those assumptions might be way off..)
P(He Folds FLop)= 36%
EV(He Folds Flop)= 26$+164$=190$
P(He Calls)= 64%
EV(He Calls, i lose)= -388$
EV(HE Calls, i win)= 426$
-> EV(4Betting) = 0.215* (-118$)(He has Aces) +0.1* 76$ (He folds vs 4Bet)
+(1-0.1-0.215)(0.36 190$+0.64* (0.46* 426$- 0.54* 388$))
EV(4Betting) = -25.4$ + 7.6$ + 0.685* (68.4$+125.4$-134.1$) = +23.1$
(b) Calling
For Calling to be more profitable, the EV has to be bigger than +23.1$. After the BB squeezes, i’ll have to call an additional 38$ and i am pretty sure the BU will come along as well.
In that case, there will be 152$ in the pot with 350$ left in my stack. So, if i see it right, my share of the pot has to be more than 38+23=61$ to be more profitable than the 4Bet, right (which equals 0.40%).
The button has a very lose range here, so i guess i am probably around the 40% equity mark in this case, but i have bad relative position and he is a frequent cbettor. A lot of the time i will flop just a bare overpair (45,1535% OVERPAIR | NO FLUSH DRAW), which i either have to fold or stick it in and hope to be flipping or be slightly ahead (the deuce and the four won’t give me much additional equity on most of the boards). So, i would say that my EV here is lower than 23.1$

I have a couple of questions here:
- Do you think the assumptions i made are okay, or is something way off in your opinion?

  • Are you more inclined to 4Bet this hand with or without the BU in the hand?
    Pro: Bad relative Position postflop
    Contra: BB has probably stronger squeeze range than 3betting range; we let the player with a pretty lose range fold and isolate us against the stronger range

  • Let’s assume we open a 35% range in the CO, the BU folds and the SB 3Bets us. What do you think how lose must the SB 3Betting range be for you to start 4Betting with the following hands (100BBs Stacks):
    AKKQds, AKK7ss, KK89ds, KKT6ss, AQQ5ss, AK78ds
    How does it change when stacks get deeper (200BBs+)?

I will search for a hand in my database where i made a 4Bet from OOP and would love to hear your thought on that topic as well.
Thanks for your feedback!

Fabse

2 Comments

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jonna102 10 years, 3 months ago

I think you are vastly underestimating how often he'll show up with AAxx here. And whatever he actually has, I never really see anyone squeeze and then fold, so I don't think you have any fold equity either.

In addition, you are super crushed the times he actually does have AAxx, but not all that much ahead at all when he doesn't. All this together makes 4-betting any KKxx a pretty solid way to lose money imo.

John Beauprez 10 years, 3 months ago

Hi,

cool hand, thanks for sharing. your assumptions seem pretty accurate from what i can tell. these spots are tough, and actually i am not sure i've ever ran the #'s on them like you did, but in general, here's a few things i consider.

a) i would be more likely to 4b this when i open the btn, sb calls (similar player types), and bb sqz's. squeezing ranges from competent players here are wider and therefore we have greater domination potential in this way.

b) when we open from the co, btn calls and bb sqz's i think his range is a lot stronger than the aforementioned situation. therefore, i'm more likely to peel the hand you have here.. 4b'ing can't be that bad, but i think against this specific player you will run into AA more than you think and it's more prof to let the weaker player behind come along with dominated stuff.

c) it really depends on how wide you perceive him to be squeezing. your hud stats seem pretty accurate from what i can tell but hopefully you have a read on what he thinks of you and how often you're folding. i can think of many dynamics where regs will squeeze me much lighter than the stats indicate, so it just really depends. if he's wide and you 4b then chalk it up to a cooler i suppose, but typically my approach in these situations when it's close is to default to peeling bc the risk of 4b'ing and isolating myself against the strongest range (in the 3 way situation) doesn't outweigh the reward of 4b'ing ... in short, if it's close i peel but if i have a good beat on my opponent i just 4b and shrug if i do happen to run into AA.

glgl,

John

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