Pre-emptive decisions in SNGs, an open shoving chart that isn't really "unexploitable"
Posted by JukeBox
Posted by
JukeBox
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SNGs
Pre-emptive decisions in SNGs, an open shoving chart that isn't really "unexploitable"
I'm relearning SnGs from scratch, haven't really touched them in a serious way for over 2.5 years.
This post is aimed at beginners,but I would love winning players to comment also.
Tons of situations in SnGs occur very Often. Using SnG wizard in combination with custom villain calling ranges based on observations I have created my own shoving chart for 9 man SnGs at 4-5 different stack depths. This Chart isn't quite an "unexploitable" strategy like the pushbot charts we see advertised elsewhere, however it does take ICM into consideration which is very useful. I have also made adjustments in certain spots to deal with things like blind pressure ( taking 0% edge or slightly -EV shoves from utg or utg+1 when we are about to lose fold equity or suffer from the blinds. ) I'm confident many winning regs use similar charts either in written form or committed to memory or from experience as a reference/general strategy for making decisions easier/quicker while mass multi-tabling.
This was more an exercise in understanding how SnG structures can impact things, and I feel it has really made apparent the ridiculous amount of spots where we can shove over 40% of hands in an unexploitable fashion where overcalls increase our $Expectation even more. Having not played SnGs for so long, it can be hard to get a tangible grasp over why this is so, and SnGWiz equity graphs helps solidify this, which is great for dealing with downswings as you know you are playing well, and can easily review hands properly. This understanding also means I'l be able to tear apart any SnG structure that appears in the future to find a winning strat.
This is a first revision, so I want feedback. Specifically, if you play 9mans at small stakes, can you talk a bit about BB and SB calling ranges? I think I have made some reasonable assumptions about what to expect. If you find any errors let me know!
I have set edge% to 0.1% in all positions except for those in which I feel we may want to be slightly more risk averse or on the other side of the spectrum are expecting loss of fold equity.
the spreadsheet is below:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxwlXpAEUh8mRFhCWWZNQ1F3ak0/edit?usp=sharing
rgds,
Conall
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its a good idea to build our own shove charts. As we delve deeper into the theory tho I think we should use the knowledge to break through such systems and free ourselves from their boundaries.
This is a general strategy.
It means that we use it as a baseline and diverge from it when we have reasons to do so using said knowledge that you mention. In fact we are using that same knowledge to construct this in the first place, so I don't think you are appreciating it's value so much.
The boundaries of this approach are only those we set ourselves. I played with SnGWiz and my hand histories for some stacks and situations that aren't listed on the chart, however adjusting the ranges did not improve our outcome to such a degree that it would warrant being mentioned, and simply added complexity and time that would be better spent in spots where we are deeper and our decisions are more significant to our ROI.
Feel free to elaborate if you disagree.
No I don't think I disagree so much. Just pointing out that as I learn more my shoving ranges become more dynamic.
yes, so they should :-)
Hi!
Could you tell me how did u build that chart? I'm playing 45 men and want learn ICM structure for this tournament because I see better is take a risk and go HU than having a lot of 5-6 places.
alright, so what I did was simulate the various stack sizes in that chart, making sure the my opponents had me covered, as its the effective stack we are interested in.
I then changed the ranges in SnGWiz (as they are pretty wrong in most cases) to better reflect the ranges that I was encountering in my games. This is the baseline readless Ranges for an ABC type of bad player.
I then copy down the info from SnGWiz about what ranges it believes are profitable to shove in that situation. I then adjust the ranges by widening them and see if it changes that range much. Then do the same by tightening it. Record your findings, then rinse and repeat.
note: SnGWiz doesn't factor in future events into its calculations, so make sure to take blind pressure/loss of fold equity into consideration.
Can i ask what stakes you are playing at? im playing $3.50 9 mans on stars and would find it difficult to fold 22-33 or AQo in the Low jack with 12bb. although usually if im in the low jack it means at least 6 players remain and we are not in the stages of antes, so it could have been a lot closer then i thought.
Do you think you could use this chart in 6-max Super Turbo SnGs? (300 starting chips, 30/15 starting blinds.)
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