Ace King, 4 bet or call opp?

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Ace King, 4 bet or call opp?

Hey guys, I have been having alot of trouble with ace king recently and out of position. My Fold to 3bet is already exploitable at 80+% because I'm so afraid of 3 bet pots I always get destroyed, and I'm trying to improve. I don't want to just muck AK when I get 3bet.

Here is a hand where I really don't like how I played it. Should I be 4 betting all in to avoid mistakes post flop? This means I have no 4 bet bluff range though. I do do some light 4 bets and to balance this range I need to put value hands like AK in there. Anyway please take a look at this hand and tell me what you think I should be doing, should I be check jamming flop? check folding? Bet folding seems terrible (which is what I did) Anyway thanks for your times guys!

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

BTN: 112.6 BB (VPIP: 18.99, PFR: 15.51, 3Bet Preflop: 14.17, Hands: 327)
SB: 24.4 BB (VPIP: 17.65, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 20.10, PFR: 17.70, 3Bet Preflop: 17.24, Hands: 211)
UTG: 127.4 BB (VPIP: 13.70, PFR: 6.85, 3Bet Preflop: 1.20, Hands: 599)
MP: 190.6 BB (VPIP: 7.69, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 26)
Hero (CO): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Ac Ks
fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 24 BB, BTN calls 15 BB

Flop : (49.4 BB, 2 players) Qh 7h 2s
Hero bets 33 BB, BTN raises to 88.6 BB and is all-in, fold

BTN wins 110.6 BB

10 Comments

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TimeGoat 8 years, 8 months ago

i think it's villain dependent whether to 4b or call, if they stack off light w/ AJo+ then i like stacking off PF. i'd suggest to use a 25-33% cbet bet sizing in 4b pots, you can stack off easily with that sizing and people will fold about the same amount. have you messed around with figuring out GTO 3 bet spots? that would help you a lot to understand 3betting more. also, something that helped me to understand them more, was to just start defending a lot more vs 3bets. it's harder OOP, but the more you widen your defense range the more you'll see that people 3bet very light some times. anyways, hope something there helped.

Tawan6 8 years, 8 months ago

Villain's 3bet% is slightly high (just), can assume he is 3betting wider range from the button, which you usually will be ahead of, so i dont mind the 4Bet to build a pot if you hit flop. However, since you are OOP and uncomfortable, call more frequently, x/c cbets slightly more and reevaluate turn? What are Villain's barrel stats?

As played, have to fold flop with no backdoors. Fwiw if hero has Ah, i would be more tempted to be sticky or get frisky and fight back a small % of time as 4B folding flops in hyper exploitable.

NickHalden 8 years, 8 months ago

You have to learn to not be afraid of playing 3bet pots, cause if you fold 80% to 3bets and I have that info I will 3bet you 72o and in the long run I will win money.
My advice is: watch some live sessions and see with what regs call 3bet oop and ip. Also some videos of how to play 3bet pots

I agree with roronoa, if you cbet, 30% is enough, as played easy fold obv

TimeGoat 8 years, 8 months ago

^
i would highly suggest to watch gameplay videos and see what they are doing in 3b pots.
it was surprising to me the first time i saw pros calling with what i thought was so light...

mason barrell 8 years, 8 months ago

After you bet this big, you have to call it off on the flop.

You're getting 21% pot odds.....his range could be AQ/KQ and a couple combos of nut-flush draws, and you would have a winning call.

That said, c bet smaller, 1/3 pot. Also 4b is a bit big.

Tawan6 8 years, 8 months ago

Thanks for this comment, Mason.
I have similar problems when i whiff flop like this; folding to cbet continually is so exploitable, so you have given me something to work with here.
If i assign a villain a range and assume his probably of hitting flop, depending on pot odds, math indicates i could/should still call in similar situations?

Brokenstars 8 years, 8 months ago

Poker is a dynamic game. Meaning that the optimal line is going to be player dependent. So let us discuss which variables you need to be looking at here to determine how to play this spot.

  1. You open in CO
  2. You are ~100bb eff
  3. Villain 3-bets to 9bb in BTN vs your CO raise and has stats of 19/15/14 or 327 hands
  4. We have AK

Okay, so when it folds around to you your options are:

  1. Raise
  2. Fold
  3. Call

You want to be thinking about why you would do any of these actions so let us discuss:

  1. You can raise for two main reasons, though most raises are going to be a bit of both
    1.1 You raise for value
    1.2 You raise to fold out equity

A hand like AK has combinations of both because villain can still call with many worse hands, but folding out a hand like 87s is actually a good thing for us because that hand has reasonable equity against us.

  1. The main reason to fold is simply because you believe it to be higher EV than calling. So if you think you are going to LOSE MORE by calling, you should fold. But, you need to remember that when you call in a spot like this the overall spot may still be -EV, but because there is dead money in the pot you can call and lose-less basically, recapturing some of that dead money.

  2. Calling is good with hands that can flop well/realize their equity well, are strong but not strong enough to value raise/bluff (so not category 1 or 2 basically) This often includes suited connectors, suited aces, some mid-low pocket pairs and some broadways/strong aces

Bottom line when deciding which action to take is basically a function of EV - which one makes me more money?

In this situation I think we can quickly state that folding is out of the question. So now your options that you need to decide between are calling or raising. If villain is calling with enough worse hands then raising becomes quickly more appealing. To determine this we need to estimate villain's 3b range. I'd take the time to look in your database at this villain to see what he has been 3-betting. A 14% 3-bet is very high, but he has a tight range. My guess is he is just running hot, but it could be he's 3-betting almost his entire continuuing range on btn VS co. Anyways, with the information we have if we give him a 14% 3-bet then raising is quickly more appealing because we are making him fold is equity + getting value from many hands.

Okay, so now we've determined we want to raise. Next up is sizing. A good sizing here is arguably anywhere between 21-27bb. Different sizings accomplish different things.... If you want more calls go smaller, if you want more folds go bigger (more or less, I won't go into this much and this is quite a bit debatable). But, all I wanted to say was your sizing is fine. I tend to go around 23-24 here oop vs 9bb and 100bb eff.

Once you've made it to the flop in a 4bp you must quickly learn that because your range is very strong and narrow you should be betting smaller. In 4bp a good sizing for 100bb starting eff. is around 1/3rd pot but it also depends on assumed ranges and board textures. Here you made the mistake of going much too large. I'd argue a bet here is pretty much mandatory, so I'd say bet/fold around 1/3psb is good. Unfortunately you sized it so large that you basically committed yourself and now the pot odds given to you are less than the equity you likely have vs. his range.

lelrekt 8 years, 8 months ago

Thanks a bunch, I need to read up on 1/3 pot bets. I see this popping up quite a bit used in single raised pots on certain textures vs certain villains. Can you link any articles/videos that might help me with bet sizing?

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