10nl KK facing flop raise
Posted by Sean Fri
Posted by
Sean Fri
posted in
Low Stakes
10nl KK facing flop raise
CO: $13.41
BN: $20.81
SB: $10
BB: $14.88
UTG: $22.50
HJ: $15.51 (Hero)
BN: $20.81
SB: $10
BB: $14.88
UTG: $22.50
HJ: $15.51 (Hero)
(for the record, I still 2 table 25nl, but I drop down to 10nl to play 4 tables+ because I'm trying to be smart about bankroll - I didn't suffer a recent disaster.)
Villain - don't really know him yet he's 29/15/4 so far in the match, 150 hands in across several tables (and ends up being 32/17/4 about 100 hands later)
Me - at 10nl, I tend to nit it up a good deal, and it works wonders. It's boring, but it works wonders. I usually end up around 21/17/5 or so, but so far at this table, I'm 16/11/0. He's at all of my tables, though, so the numbers probably look more reasonable.
Villain - don't really know him yet he's 29/15/4 so far in the match, 150 hands in across several tables (and ends up being 32/17/4 about 100 hands later)
Me - at 10nl, I tend to nit it up a good deal, and it works wonders. It's boring, but it works wonders. I usually end up around 21/17/5 or so, but so far at this table, I'm 16/11/0. He's at all of my tables, though, so the numbers probably look more reasonable.
Preflop
($0.15)
(6 Players)
Hero was dealt
K
K
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BN folds, SB folds, BB folds
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BN folds, SB folds, BB folds
My general read for the stake for those kind of numbers is that he's a guy who has a good opening range and then likes to see a lot of flops as well. So here I expect a bunch of hands that play well post and don't mind multi-way action -pp's and sc's.
Flop
($0.75)
9
7
9
(2 Players)
Hero bets $0.50,
CO raises to $1.66,
Hero calls $1.16
Call seems fine, but to tell you the truth, I almost folded. I only need about 30% to call, though, which I could possibly have depending on how many TT-QQ I put in his range. My gut tells me I only have 2 outs. (fwiw, in this sessions fairly low sample size, this will be the only time he raises a flop.)
Turn
($4.07)
J
(2 Players)
Hero checks,
CO bets $2.71,
Hero calls $2.71
River
($9.49)
Q
(2 Players)
Hero checks
He shoves his remaining 8.74. (Don't know why the converter keeps leaving off the last action…)
And now on the river, I think it's an obvious fold. Would anyone have gotten out sooner? Played it faster? I feel like I took the worst possible line, although the math supports it on the flop and turn if I include pp's below mine. Now, of course, the only thing I beat is TT, so muck it is.
I realize this is a blatant 'wahhh, wahhhh, my kings got cracked, everybody tell me I did the right thing!' post, but…. well, I'm not proud.
Loading 14 Comments...
Fold turn is fine imo until you get more reads, 8T just got there, hes probably playing a ton of 9x, 79,89,9T,9J,A9,K9.
Im inclined to agree. If you have reads he does this with worse, then the hands a bit easier. Otherwise fold :)
Yeeeep, that's what I did. I'm on the fence about folding turn, but that's probably better, too.
I dont really know, Im not familiar with these limits so I dunno how often people are trying to run a bluff. The jack is a really good card for his bluff range, in that it gives T8 a straight, and JT J8 and some some overcard bluffs like KJ get a pair. So the question is what would he do no with TP here, check it back cuz he has SDV or bet cuz he has TP?
I think tho that if Im calling the turn Im going to call pretty much most rivers, because Im putting him on enough bluffs that I cant fold, and I dont think we can just count on him to give up the river with a bluff.
I dont think theres anything wrong with just folding the turn.
What you can do to make life a little bit easier/evolve your play is to 3-bet him on the flop after his initial raise. I guess if he is an aggresive player he will shove there and then its a decision for you to make but I doubt that most people would shove with 7x 88 T8 or even TT there. The problem with 10nl is that alot of people just calls with their pairs all the way upp to JJ some people even call with QQ. If his callingrange contains them and he shoves u can call otherwhise most villians will se your raise see that they have a 9 and just shove because they think u will automatically call.
So I am giving you an alternative route to play the hand which sometimes is not discussed more the ''did I do right or wrong''? But how u played the hand u either in my opinion should shove the turn over his raise or just fold because alot off rivers makes your life harder. What hand people also seems to miss that villian could have played in a similiar way is JT or 86 which u both beat and there an argument for calling him on the river if he can have these holdings aswell.
I could do that, but if he's thinking at all he'll realize that there's not tons of 9x in my HJ opening range and he can pretty much shove over anything. Plus, I find players with this kind of spread (very high vpip, perfectly reasonable pfr) at this level are often looking to see flops and maximizing value by building huge pots quickly against over pairs when they flop anything that can beat AA. So if I were to raise, it would be to raise/fold. Like I said - nitting it up at this level seems to work really well.
I'm beginning to get on board wit the turn fold, though.
it makes it easier to play to 3 bet, but I think this is bad as hes just going to fold all his bluffs. I guess maybe at 10nl people are still bad enough to call TT or something, but really 3 betting is just blasting him off all the hands we beat, and getting him to continue vs with all the ones that beat us.
Yeah in poker you make money by avoiding difficult decision. I am just saying that there are times when he will fold to a flop reraise and then u take home the hand right then and not having to play out off pos. I agree with how you think about the situation just wanted to give you another viewpoint :)
you dont make money by avoiding difficult decisions, you make money by making better decisions than your opponents. If you are making poor decisions, then avoiding the opportunity to make those mistakes will yeild comparative profit, but thats not where your profit in the game is coming from.
Also, the way to get better at difficult spots is finding yourself in them and then having to figure out the best play, and also learning from all your mistakes and seeing how opponents are playing their hands. If all you do is figure out the way to play the hand that makes your decisions the easiest, you are sacrificing both profit and growth.
3bet/Folding flop is horrible IMO...thats like raising for info and is so 2009
Well, yeah - but I'm not too happy about 3bet/calling with this hand, either, which is why I didn't 3bet and why I likely never would. To me, strong, possibly good but non-nutted value hands belong in the bet/call range.
I've got to say I'm surprised by the number of comments in this thread. I thought I'd get one "fold" comment and move on. Thank you, gentlemen - makes me think it was worth posting, after all.
EDIT - and, after some thought, I decided to dig through some data to check the field's tendencies in this spot. Report back later….
IMO, all u mentioned is preflop stats, and cuz its a postflop play so u should at least give some info about villian's postflop tendency, which does matter
It does, which is why I mentioned it. (See the notes after flop.) That being said, with only a few hundred hands, there are very few post-flop stats that I have on him that are going to be accurate.
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