Monetary goals or not?
Posted by Simon Novak
Posted by
Simon Novak
posted in
Mental Game
Monetary goals or not?
Hi. I'm new member of runitonce and I'm soooooo excited about it. It has great design, great price and great coaches. Most of them are my poker idols (like Sauce, Phil, Kylonnen...). It's so nice to be in runitonce team.
Little about me: I'm 31 years old, I'm musician (pianist, singer...) I teach music in elementary school. I've been playing chess for about 5 years and poker for 2 years. I'd say I'm decent chess player, many of my friends said I'm very talented in chess and have a lot of prospect. But in poker I honestly didn't come far as NL10 (I played some NL20 and NL50, unsucessfully) and I think It's not because of my lack of talent for poker but mostly because of my mental game, or because I set myself monetary goals which I think lead me to tilt (or subtle tilt) almost every session I played.
I read both books of Tendler, watched Tommy Angelo, listen to all podcast of Jared Tendler and I'm still confused about setting monetary goals or not. Tendler in one of his article defends result-oriented goals, Angelo says it's not good to set goals that are in future and just stay in the present and focus on playing each hand as good as possible. Also some poker players gave me advice to have monetary goals which could keep me motivated but I think it only tilt me because of this goal.
I know it's stupid to be result oriented in single hand, but I know it's logical to be result-oriented in 1.000.000 hands (or is it?). I'm also too focused on result because I don't enjoy my job that much and would like to have a lot of money and only do what I like - music. Money represent freedom to me. I care about it too much and I think that's bad if you're poker player, honestly.
My question is this: How can I detach from result? How can I achieve that I don't tilt when I lose money? What are other goals that I can set to myself that aren't monetary? How does other players solve this problem? I read once Phil Galfond's quote "No monetary goals, there's too much variance in games I play". But could variance be minimazed if you play large sample of hands?
Please help with any kind of advice. I fell I'd be a very good player if I only solve or improve my mental game. Thank you very much.
SIMON
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Hi Simon,
Welcome to RIO.
I think you really need to ask yourself why do you play poker. Do you want to be a professional poker player or do you just want to earn just enough money to pursue your dream of becoming a professional musician? Poker is a complex and cruel game that evolves continuously and you have to be willing to evolve along with it. Only few people are able to make a fortune by playing poker, and talent alone will not be enough to make it happen. The best poker players are the ones that put the most effort developing their game and their emotional intelligence. So really think about; Are you here for the long run?
I have also struggeled with my mental game and I still do. However, studying the game and implementing new strategies to my game helps me gain confidence and thus helps my mental game. I would never put monetary goals to myself. Thinking about the winnings or losses distracts me from the current pot and decision that is going on right now. Poker is about making the right decisions based on the information available. You have to be really in the moment and detached from any emotions to make the right decision. You have read Jared Tendler's books, which is great, but are you really doing the stuff he teaches? Only by reading a book or two will not make you stop from tilting.
I will give you some tips that helped my mental game.
-Exercise. Having a strong physique helps your mental game.
-Eat healthy. Never play when you are hungry or full of junk food.
-Don't play when you don't feel well or you have had a really tilty session the day before and you have not recovered 100%.
-Close instant messaging sw/devices, web browser, phone and basically everything that could distract you when you play.
-Take breaks. Too long sessions will make you bored, tired and hungry. Do 10 push-ups and have a snack every 1-1,5hours.
-Never play when you have been awake 12hours+ or basically never play when your tired.
-Try to be aware of your currenty state of mind. If you take a bad beat, be aware of your emotions. If you start to feel tilty, sit out and take a 5minutes break to do push-ups for example. If you still feel tilty, try again tomorrow.
-Work on your game. Read artices, post hands, watch videos and ALWAYS try to learn more.
-Be humble. Never expect anything from the game. No one ows you nothing. Concentrate on the current pot and decision you are about to make.
-And finally, have faith and enjoy the ride.
GL in the tables.
Thanks for your adivces Luigi. I think you're right I played poker only for money to pursue my dream to become proffesional musician. That was the main reason for tilt. I must change this mindset and try to enjoy poker more. I'm happy I'm not alone in this thing. Best wishes to you all to solve tilt issues. I worked hard last year on specially my mental game, I made a lot of progress but still need to do. If you also need some help just PM me or ask questions. I'm strong theoretically but need to put in practice.
Hey Simon. To answer a few of your questions starting with the first one, to detach yourself from results is to not put all of your focus/concern on a single session and it's outcome, but rather a handful of sessions or more then distinguish how you have been doing. I think doing it this way would give you some breathing room so to speak and you won't happen to go into the next session with some weight on your shoulders if you played poorly or lost in the prior one.
Regarding tilt, if you a person who does tilt if they happen to lose, you just gotta remember losing, getting sucked out on, taking bad beats, not always playing your A-game, etc. is part of the game of poker. It tests our emotions and the ones who can control their emotions while playing this game and after will be the ones who will profit. Just remember you are not alone if you happen to tilt, many of us do but less tilt equals more satisfaction. A healthier lifestyle can also ease tilting problems I've found out because when I'm playing and I've been eating poorly and not exercising, right off the bat I'm not in the best mood to begin with because I feel somewhat lousy. Add losing money to that equation and it's not pretty.
And regarding variance, I think no matter how many hands you play or games you play at a given time, if you're not running well, you're not running well. That's the beast with variance. You can be doing everything right, but if the cards aren't falling correctly for you, it's just not you're time at the moment and a little break from poker would be a good call of action. A break or vacation if you will.
Hope this helps and struck a chord with you. Best of luck on the felt.
I don't personally like monetary goals, but it's probably about personal preference. You just have to find an approach that suits you best. If we take top 5 players in the world, I'm pretty sure they have differences in their approaches, more or less.
One more thing, and you better believe when I say this: Poker is NOT worth if you're only in it for money. Poker is very fucking hard and there are a lot of smart people trying to win money, just like you are!
I don't want to scare you away from poker or say that you specifically are playing poker only for money. That's not what I mean here. What I'm saying is that poker is not easy money, and if you don't enjoy playing poker, enjoy logical thinking and don't be excited to learn the game etc, poker is not worth your time. However, if you do love the game and you are excited to learn etc, poker is definitely a great path to take in your life! You have no idea how much I have learned through poker, not just about poker and logical thinking, but also about life, myself, other people etc.
Good luck!
I doubt weather it matters to much if you set money goal or not as long as you aren't tracking daily results, and distracting yourself from things that you can control.
I like to set money targets for longer time periods(i.e. 6 months). I find this helps my motivation and helps me put in the hours.
But, I try to ignore my daily, weekly, and even month results as much as I can. I track my results but it is easy to hide you poker site account balances and win//loss stats in holdem manager. Last year when I played at Casino every week I kept money in my Box in a mix of chips and cash purposely disorganized so I couldn't do a quick count :)
Does not make sense to me put monetary goals. If im better player than yesterday, and tomorrow will be better player than today... Why should i be sad if i loose money on a single session ?
In poker you have to "accept" looses, sometimes you just loose money. And if you are going to feel bad when you loose, or well when you don´t, your overall mood will be very unstable.
I focus my goals on my learning curve mainly. I feel that as more you learn, and more confident you are about your decisions, even when this ones results in looses, more difficult is to tilt you.
Pretty cool way to think about it.
Hi Simon.
How's it going?
One thing I'd like to add is bank roll management. BRM is one of the key foundations in the correct psychological approach to the game of poker, and still it is so often overlooked. Personally, I believe you have to be 100% detached from emotions whether you win or lose, and having 100 buy-in+ BRM does just that, at least for me it does. I have to admit this is something I still struggle with when I want to take shots to higher games.
Thanks all for your answers. I always had bad BRM that's also why I tilted so much, but if I played on lowerstakes I got bored or unmotivated so it's complicated for me. I practice mindfullness now it's helped a lot for me. It's helped in that way that I don't play poker anymore =) At least during week, because I'm too tired after my job. In past I'd just go and play tired and usually I lost many Buyins this way. Now when I'm more mindfull I ask myself: How do I feel? Am I tired? Is it right time to play poker? And answer is usually Yes I'm tired, so I don't play and do other things. It's great feeling to be able to say no to poker when it's right to do so.
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