+EV to not play?
Posted by SuperStar245
Posted by
SuperStar245
posted in
Gen. Poker
+EV to not play?
Has anyone gone through a phase where they felt they were not playing well enough to even try play at all? Maybe it was when you were first starting out online. I am still trying to get over the first hurdle of online poker and that is to slowly but surely build a bankroll from just a $50 deposit. When I have a good day, its only an alright day. A bad day is fucking frustrating and very damaging to my small bankroll which gets me wondering if I should just not even play until I put in hours and hours more of theory. I don't mean to come across as complete newbie or a fish. But rather a poker intellect - an unsuccessful one. Do I stop playing until Im sure that my skill set and game is like top 15% of all online players(rough estimate)? Or continually play small sessions of poker with mediocre results while still trying to study the finer concepts of the game. Thanks in advance for any comments
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Sounds exactly like my golf game right now....sorry to hear that things are not going well. It is very difficult to get good results in on line poker with so many people trying to do the same thing but I think you have to keep studying to move forward and keep playing too so you can try out different things. Are you doing anything to identify leaks and formulate a strategy? I don't think you can get to the top unless you know what you are working on and have appropriate tactics for the game you are targeting. You should be able to start winning at the lowest stakes and generally I think tight play should do it as long as you are not too passive. Position is important and learning to recognize good bluff spots (not too often). You have to be patient but aggressive at the right times.
Just by studying and trying to understand theory and being a member of this site you are way beyond what most players are doing at your level so good things will come
Do you mean this emotionally or in terms of BB/100?
If it's the former, then you need to become detached from the results and be pleased with yourself if you played well/made good decisions regardless of the outcome.
If it's the latter then perhaps you might actually not be a winner in the games and the small wins you are seeing is just variance/luck.
Confidence is a huge part of playing well. And in order to be confident, you need a strong set of fundamentals which you can only get by studying and reviewing your play.
So taking time off to study and going over your database can be "+EV to not play" in that sense. If you think of this as investing in future EV gains then you can never feel guilty about it (unless you slack off).
If you can't beat the games you're trying to play at the moment due to certain circumstances (downswing, personal problems, not having an edge anymore), then yes, not playing has a higher EV than playing.
Thank you So_Nitty. I do spend a lot of time studying the game and figuring out what I can do to improve my game. By my own evaluation I think I may have a mental leak as much as anything. My A game does not always come out in lower stakes. Im not sure if its because I have a disregard for small amounts of money which would make sense when I'm playing weekly $2-$4 live games. It can be generally hard to stay patient. I admire those who can grind out long sessions without doing something suboptimal like playing smaller suited connectors in a 3/4 bet pot. This doesn't take away the fact that I do not feel like I can beat games on a consistent basis without changing something about myself whether thats strategically or mentally. Which is way I may need to take a break to get my shit sorted.
bdon, I think its a little bit of both but as a lot of players say, losing is a stronger feeling than what winning is. I wrote this post after a bad session and was quite tilted. Now that I'm not on tilt I really think my thought process changes after a bad run. I start a session fresh and playing well, but if say i was to lose a couple heads up matches or make a bad call, my A game is pretty much out the window and I start looking for ways to win faster. Choosing bad spots to be aggressive etc. Patience is a huge mental game leak for me I think. But I know I am capable of playing quality poker, but damn I have some leaks.
Aside from everything else, Im not entirely sure what the best way to build a bankroll from scratch is. I feel like just depositing $500 just to get off the ground but I am determined to not have to risk money I have worked for. Is there an optimal way to build a bankroll from scratch? Playing MTTs for a single big score is not ideal as I can't dedicate 6+ hours a day to playing poker. Any tips for starting out? Thank you
If you really want to grind it up then just start out with a small BR at microstakes and work your way up. There's really no shortcut. The harder you work on increasing your skills and reducing your tilt, the faster your BR will grow.
Just remember that at the beginning it will take some time for results/profits to come in (as with any business). One way or another you will need to invest in your edge (books, coaching, videos, etc.). Losing money while playing is also part of this category (and always will be).
Also what's wrong with smaller suited connectors? :P That's a very generalized statement that shows a little bit of naivety on your part re: pre-flop understanding.
Anyway, as an action plan, I've found these books have helped my mental game tremendously:
- The Mental Game of Poker 1 & 2 by Jared Tendler
- Elements of Poker by Tommy Angelo
Good luck.
Not playing is always zero EV. If that's the best you can get on a given day, take it. :-)
Isn't starting with a $50 deposit a slightly -ev?
With so many players having access to information, wouldn't it be ev to deposit atleast $100 even if you are starting out at 2nl or 2plo? Having a decent bankroll gives you a chance to learn and make errors without destroying your br.
Gl at the tables ;)
Thanks bdon, Il try get my hands on those books :) I think you are right thats its going to be very much a grind both bankroll wise and mentally. Thanks everyone for your help :)
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