riverboatking

oh also I think it goes without saying that 3b flop looks bluffier and is +ev vs flatting (esp when ur young and have an aggro image).

seems like with less then a PSB and the nuts on turn villian would think for a few seconds at least about shoving. him calling quickly and the stack sizes lead me to believe you should jam. he's not folding AK/KQ/KJ and I think he has KT/K9 pretty rarely (I would actually be more worried about K9 then KT, despite card removal, as he could have decided on flop to let u fire it off till the river, whereas if he turned the nuts I def feel like he would take a few seconds to rethink his line.

inn general on these type boards when a rando takes the line he took and does so quickly I find it to always be defensive/bluff catching. the only thing better would be if he grabbed his chips on the river after checking to show you he's ready to call. 

I really like overbet56 analysis. 

for ppl in the "call the turn" camp, when he jams on brick river cards are we hero calling since 1) our perceived range is so weak and 2) we have blockers? 

I see a lot of regs who's default line in these spots where their opponents flat the turn on such wet boards is to check all their strong hands on the river to induce from missed draws and jam all their air since they assume villains range is capped at 1pr+draw. obv that is super exploitable and as you move up in stakes and face better players that line goes out the window, but def be aware of that tendency vs avg multi tabling regs. for quite a while that line was suuuuuuper std and u could exploit the shit out of non-aware players who were thinking high enough to put you on a range and think about capped ranges etc but not thinking on the next level up and not realizing how exploitable it was. I actually got accused of super using after making a pretty thin call in a spot like that where the river bricked and all I could beat was a bluff, and I remember thinking before he acted "pls jam pls jam pls jam" cuz I knew if he checked there was no way I could win heh.

/tangent.

agree 100% with both responses. OP ur thinking on the 1st level like most beginners where strong=weak and weak=strong, when u advance to higher stakes that goes out the window. 

great spot to barrel just remember you don't have to bet very much. 30-40% of the pot is more then enough. also just curious what do u mean he bought in 10K but took 5K off? are u trying to say he's down 5K or he actually took chips off the table? (that's called going south and is against the rules).

i like this play alot because both you and victor know he will float these types of boards OOP a decent amount and therefore you will have to combat this by checking back a decent amount of nutted turns.
if he wasn't smart enough to be aware of what adjustments you need to make on super static board textures to combat his tendency to float i would hate the play, but given he is def smart enough to realize this he should know you can and will def check back nut flush in this spot a decent amount of the time.
the only thing is at the same time i don't necessarily think he has a flush that often in this spot (tho you will have a much better idea of how many flushes he has in his range given his line) so i feel like his range is weighted somewhat more towards a bluff so i'm not sure if the raise is necessary (tho it could def be good in terms of having an overall balanced river strategy on these types of board textures).
i haven't watched much of your guy's matches (i somehow always seem to miss all the fun) but i'm curious if he'll bet/fold a 9hi flush in this spot.

are you asking if its donkish to get all-in with the best hand? i mean when you are faced with an all-in shove and have to either call or fold how can it ever be donkish to call with double suited aces?

this hand is a perfect example of why you should only play in games that have a bad beat jackpot.
true story, right after i graduated and moved back down to LA i was playing in a 1/2NL game. i had TT (jackpot qualifier was aces full of tens or better beaten by quads or better and both cards had to play) board was AA2 in a 3bet pot and on flop i looked at villain and his eyes were all big. flop went check check and as dealer was about to burn and turn i stopped him and said "put another ace up there please" he ripped off another ace and i looked at villain again and he was staring at me with his eyes about to pop out of his head. i just kindv tilted my head in a questioning manner and he started bobbing his head frantically. now we just needed a low card to come on river so not to counterfeit his kicker so again i stop the dealer and say "make it low please" he rips off a 4 and the guy doesn't even wait for any action he just slams over his AJ and starts fist-pumping. the best part was he could've just open shoved the river and obv i would be forced to call and he would've won a lil extra but he clearly was so excited he didn't consider that (prolly kindv scummy to do in his spot tho i dunno). i also won the lion share of the jackpot as i had the losing hand (think my cut was ~23K which at the time was huge).
i hadn't even wanted to come play that night but my buddy called me and convinced me to come play, and i didn't want to play in the 1/2NL but i was on the WL for the 5/10NL and bored so decided to mess around in the small game.

on second thought i might bet like $302 n fold to a shove. unless ur playing god don't think you have to worry about EVER getting CR bluffed n you might get slightly more calls with that sizing. dunno.

i like your play and thinks its a pretty std vb. he shouldn't have many boats in his range and his hand screams of Khi/Qhi clubs. he literally has one of the only hands that can boat up so just unlucky imo.

do you mind sharing who the villain is? also have we played together before? i haven't been there in the past few months but was there for like 4months str8 playing everyday starting around jan. i'll be back prolly again in jan for good so alway nice to put a face to a name. i'm 32 have my left arm fully sleeved and big ink on my right elbow. was most likely the most aggro player at the table (aside from when rast was there). if you prefer to remain anonymous thats fine ofc, but def would love to know who the villain is.
cheers.
oh also how have the games been lately? is doc playing regularly?

oh also, its best to not include results so quickly.

even asking if you can fold given board and action is absurd. also don't have much to add as phil said everything i would have (n prolly better). is this game at commerce? if so who is villain? also who are you? most likely we've played together :)

ya i didn't think it was that interesting until the 6 hit the river. seemed like he wouldn't raise the turn with bare 6 but i think you guys are right its most likely the case AA.

just wondering....why are a whole bunch of posts from threads i've never opened showing up on my feed? is it like a news feed? i thought it was like a list of the threads i had been active in?

ah ok cool...ty phil i "like" your post :)

with regards to the feed i think rather then showing all the posts you've made it should have a list of the different threads you have posted in or subscribed too and they should be either grayed out or highlighted depending on if there is a new post since you've last viewed it.
pretty much try and steal a bunch of features from 2p2 (you can obv try and personalize and improve upon them) as they seem to have a pretty good format. i could def be biased just as thats the forum i'm really used to (tho i do frequent a few other forums such as clublexus for my car etc) but it seems as tho that particular feature is pretty universal for the interwebz and fourms.
if you want to have additional content directly in the feeds section you could try coming up with a "genius" type feature which can suggest other threads that the user might find interesting based on the threads they've posted in (tho that would prolly have to come much later down the road as for now with limited content it would be pretty redundant as like for me 90% of my posts are going to be in the HSPLO section so predicting other threads i would find interesting would be pretty pointless). but way down the road it might be a cool feature if its technically feasible.

oh i didn't realize that. in US it's great as the credit requirements for my major for instance was about 25% of the total credits i needed to graduate, so i was able to take a TON of classes that just appealed to me regardless of subject. i would be way less stoked about going to uni if i was forced to take all my classes in one subject matter.
as for the traveling, if you were in the US i'd say do a year abroad as there are so many amazing study abroad programs for US students who want to live over-seas for a year.
don't really think it would be that exciting for a european to study in the US tho as its much harder to travel around the states as compared to europe.
i would never tell someone to go to college in order to prepare for a job or career (unless they were interested in something already that required a degree) so basically the only thing left is the social aspect and honestly from my impressions of european culture when i traveled abroad doesn't seem like its as big of a thing in europe.
again i could be totally wrong, but seems like for 18-24yr old demographic in the US college is a much more important social function then europe.
so basically what i'm saying is completely disregard my entire rambling first response :)
good luck tho in whatever you decide.
cheers.

i may be the wrong person to comment on this since i'm an old man (32) and didn't really start playing poker till my senior year and then not seriously until the very end of the year and after graduation. however i can say that college was A BLAST.
i mean when else in your life are you going to be able to live and party non-stop with thousands of other ppl your age? its a great time to just have no worries in the world and just socialize non-stop.
i only went to the classes i enjoyed, hardly had to study (i guess being good at BS'ing combined with a poli sci degree made that possible) and had access to literally thousands of different ladies.
you want to voluntarily skip out on that? i mean MAAAYBE i could understand if this was 2006 or w/e when party poker was in its prime, but with the way poker is right now whats the rush? i can't imagine its going to be any worse in 4 years or w/e and you can still play part time while going to school.
freshman year isn't the most amazing so i wouldn't make any rash decisions until you at least move out of the dorms get your own place with some friends and start really getting comfortable on campus.
this will be the last time in your life you don't have to work, can party any day of the week with no regrets (well i guess technically i can still do that but when you get to my age you have to take your medicine and get to bed early) not to mention you have access to some amazing resources to learn. i know that last part doesn't sound very sexy but when i was at CAL i didn't take classes to prepare me for any career i just took whatever courses interested me most across a wide spectrum of fields taught by nobel prize winners and some of the most interesting people i'd ever have the opportunity to interact with.
you want to give all that up to travel around living out of hotel rooms and grinding MTT's all day long in dark seedy poker rooms? do that shit after you graduate, it will still be there.

one big difference between NL and PLO pre is that the UTG's 4bet frequency is going to be way lower then in NL. one big reason ppl don't 3bet as much in NL with hands like JJ-77 is basically you turn them into a bluff as the UTG is going to generally 4bet or fold waaaaay more often then flat.
however in PLO he's never folding and flatting here the vast majority of the time and (until you start playing higher limits and much tougher opponents) not 4betting with a wide enough range. and even when you get 4bet you have good enough equity with almost your whole range that you can call and see a flop in position.
thats a huge difference and one that allows (at least imo) you to 3bet much wider then in NL.

ps: how do you edit a reply? i only see a delete option.

i think getting him to fold KKxxss is unrealistic on the river as its just too good of a river for his hand and he's going to realize his perceived range is much weaker then his actual range and make a GTO call.
vs a really good player who has taken such a passive line (obv after the flop CR) i feel like they are smart enough to realize they have to be calling more often on the river. on the other hand your line seems really strong with the sizing of your flop 3bet (well actually it looks pretty polarized) but given that you follow up on the turn i think he has to give you credit for having a much stronger hand by the river.
one other point that people often overlook is the value of not having to showdown your hand, so even if you think you're ahead the vast majority of the time, there can still be value in a bet as your opponent doesn't get the information. i think people (including myself) get so complacent on the river with the middle part of their range that they go to showdown too often and let good smart opponents have the free info of how they played this particular hand. and esp in your case given your unorthodox flop sizing i def think there is added value in not showing your hand.
if this is enough to make betting profitable i don't know, but its def something to consider imo.

this is certainly one of those spots where in the moment i'm almost always shoving if i get to the river.
look at it this way: he has to be at the very top of his range to realistically call a river shove and even when he has AAxx he folds sometimes with this much behind so your shove is going to work a huge % of the time.
however this is one of those spots where having some notes on your opponents river tendencies is huge. there are some players that love to check their nuttish hands when they lead 2 streets and the obv draw misses figuring its unlikely you made a hand and more likely you bluff then call etc. having that read on a player is HUGE in spots like these. also knowing the ppl who just get too emotionally invested in big pots and have the mindset of "meh if he made it he wins the money, there's just too many bluffs in his range for me to fold".
but barring those reads i'm def not giving up on this pot without making him call off ~200BB on the river.
yes you feel foolish when he snap calls, but like i said i def think we're going to win the pot more then what ~40%? and even that seems like a conservative estimate.
thing is even tho he's going to be getting ~3:1 on his call and he should call with AQ/AJ really any bluff catcher with the same frequency as AAxx it seems most people will snap fold AJ but may get stubborn with AAxx. i think this has something to do with them building up a strong emotional investment from the flop onwards whereas when they have AJxx they didn't really have that strong of a hand until the river (even then obv not that strong) so its easier for them to release....does that make sense? i've rambled on enough but this is def a pretty interesting hand!! hope you pulled the trigger so we can see if he at least tanked before calling :)