patrick's avatar

patrick

4 points

I'd 4bet something like AKQJ, but this hand is a bit too weak imo, no reason to push a very marginal edge (if any) if you could as well just play a pot with a fish and a decent hand.

Oct. 22, 2014 | 5:56 p.m.

Openfold pre, fold to the 3bet, fold turn.

Oct. 22, 2014 | 5:55 p.m.

How many hands do you have on him? Generally I'd bet the turn, I think you lose a lot of value by checking, especially with the 4 counterfitting all his 2pair outs, and yet he is never folding a K.
As played I'd jam if he is somewhat bad.

Oct. 22, 2014 | 5:52 p.m.

On the flop I think all three options, lead, c/c and c/r are viable. There is no clear best play here, if there was you would probably know about it.
The advantage of c/r is that if UTG+1 bets and SB calls you can get in quite a large raise. The advantage of c/c is that you keep the pot small in a spot where you face a lot of really bad turncards for your actual hand (it's different for your range and depends on how you would play a NFD here). The advantage of leading is that you could get raised and get the money in right here.
That being said I think Villain tendencies can make one play or the other better or worse, say if he cbets very little I'd be inclined to lead. If he cbets a lot and stacks off too loose or calls too loose I'd go for a c/r. c/c is great against opponents who barrel a lot and/or are generally tough (i.e. they bluff scary turns after you lead or c/r the flop). Without any further info I think I'd lead.

On the turn you rarely make him fold imo, so I don't really like another bet. He will call a lot and you'll have a hard time on a number of rivers. He is also going to raise quite frequently even with semibluffs or blockers and you'll be in a tricky spot. I think c/jam is best on the turn against people who semibluff here, sure you sometimes run into a straight, but you still have outs. If he is rather passive and weak I think a bet is fine.

As played the river is a fold imo, people don't bet half pot if they want you to fold.

Edit: Another thought about the flop play. I want to c/c with my wraps here which is why I also c/c some bare NFDs. So I wonder if leading here puts our hand somewhat face up and if c/c is better than leading.

Oct. 22, 2014 | 5:46 p.m.

Hand History | patrick posted in PLO: 100 6max, top2 getting c/r
BB: $57.51
CO: $108.76 (Hero)
BN: $78
SB: $103.25
Villain is reggy and reasonable
Preflop ($1.50) (4 Players)
Hero was dealt T J Q A
Hero raises to $3, BN folds, SB calls $2.50, BB calls $2
Flop ($9.00) Q J 5 (3 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $6, SB raises to $26.60, BB folds
Had some heated discussions about this.
My plan was to call the raise and ship every turn which is not a spade, A, T, 9 and possibly 8 (not sure about 8s), so basically doing an equity shift.
Some friends said they'd jam the flop but I think this is a -EV play against a reasonable player in a singleraised pot.
We have 42% against AKT:ss, KT:ss, KT9:ss, QQ, JJ, 55, QJ. In that case we assume Villain will c/r/broke with bare QJ which is optimistic imo, if we remove QJ from the range we have 35%. So we never get it in with 45% even and I think that's a bad play then.
On a blank turn we have 54% against the range without QJ.

Oct. 5, 2014 | 10:36 p.m.

Hand History | patrick posted in PLO: 100 6max, 3bet pot OOP
HJ: $57.98
CO: $250
BN: $250.60
SB: $151.24
BB: $108.77 (Hero)
Villain is 46/31/17, BTN raise 50, 11 4bet.
Fold to cbet in 3bet pot 48. WTS 27.

- 4bet pot deep, i cbet 975ss he calls FD. turn goes chk chk! doesn't stab against my range!
- doesn't stab on 875ss as BTN raiser in 3bet pot when checked to
Preflop ($1.50) (5 Players)
Hero was dealt K J T A
HJ folds, CO folds, BN raises to $4.50, SB folds, Hero raises to $15, BN calls $10.50
Flop ($31.50) 3 4 5 (2 Players)
Hero bets $21, BN calls $21
I think c/f might even be best here, but I went for a b/f because he raised pot from the BTN (no read on his sizing) and because 345 is low and quite lockdown. Would c/f like 367 all day.
Turn ($73.50) 3 4 5 A (2 Players)
Hero bets $70.70, BN folds
I'm not sure if I can just pot here. I'd expect him to just jam the flop with every piece of the flop as turn SPR is only 1.
Final Pot
Hero wins $70.70

Oct. 5, 2014 | 10:26 p.m.

Quick question on KQT8ds, where you c/c Q62ss without a FD. Turn 3o goes check check. My question is if you'd lead spade rivers. You said in a comment above that you want to cbet strong FDs to charge dominated draws, so that would advise against leading spades. On the other hand you could have some weaker FDs like in the 7754ds hand where you c/c K53ss with a FD. So I'd be inclined to lead out the river, also because he should be betting the flop with only the strongest flushdraws out of fear of being c/r with a weaker FD.

Sept. 26, 2014 | 4:23 p.m.

Bet turn bigger. River just fold, you block only one 8. The only hand he could bluff here which makes sense is a busted NFD.

Sept. 24, 2014 | 1:28 p.m.

Comment | patrick commented on Not Capping Our Range

In the second hand you check back KT7ss with KT. I think it's a great check but not only for balancing reasons but also if we look at this hand in a vacuum. KT isn't that great on a variety of turncards. I also view this as some sort of equity shift with the nice bonus of being able to raise favorable turns. I don't remember if you mentioned this shift but I think it would be worth to.

I didn't particularly like the KKQ9 hand where you checked KQ6r as the PFR OOP. I think this check is only good against players like the one from the very first hand who relentlessly attack capped ranges. A KQ6r board smashes your UTG range and I wouldn't expect that many players stab at this board with a high frequency. You even said that Villains bet with AQ is unnecessary and I totally agree. Imagine he checks back even AQ like he should, we just see so many check behinds then. And we also don't have that wide of a checking range in this spot anyway as we have a very profitable cbet on a board that smashes us. Furthermore I don't really like the kind of Kings you've chosen to check. With the Q and 9 you block a lot of his ok hands where he wants to put some money in the pot. If I were to check there I'd much rather do it with KK85 where we don't block the Q.

On the KK22 hand where you c/c on K72ss. What do you think is our perceived range? I would imagine we get perceived to KBBB, possibly with hearts a lot. You said he is going to bet blanks usually and I agree, but I wonder what a blank is in his mind. Is an A a blank? A Queen, Jack, Ten? We often make 2pair with our perceived c/c range I think and I don't know if we get a bet often enough on these cards. If we were to assume he checks back a Q a lot, would that make you lead the turn on a Q?

Generally all hands were based on us having the nuts basically and checking them in order to balance our checking range. Would have been interesting to see more situations where we don't have the nuts and the standard play would imply that we cap our range either generally or for a certain part. I still learned a lot from the video and became a bit more sensitive to my cbetting frequencies as I often auto-bet some hands with which a check might have been better, the first hand is a prime example for that.

Sept. 14, 2014 | 9:44 p.m.

Laughed so hard at your c/f rant in the first video, can't wait to watch this later. Great stuff Phil.

Sept. 14, 2014 | 9:43 p.m.

Sept. 8, 2014 | 3:36 p.m.

Both 3betting and calling are okay, usually I'm a bit more conservative with 3betting UTG ranges but him being probably on the looser side I think the 3bet is legit.
Flop call is standard without further reads.
On the turn I'd go for a raise, one reason is that like you said he has 76 rarely but improves on a lot of rivers. Even if he doesn't he will often shut down because there are many scary rivers for him. 

A reason for calling the turn would be that your hand is a bit disguised and he may c/c the river on blanks with a worse hand than ours, but it's not gonna happen too often so I stick with raise turn.


Sept. 8, 2014 | 12:02 p.m.

nobody?

Sept. 7, 2014 | 10:40 p.m.

I think both 4betting and jamming the flop is spewy. nh as played I'd say.

Sept. 3, 2014 | 12:49 p.m.

Not too much of a math guy but there are 2 problems imo with calling. One is that you don't have any SDV, the other with far more impact is that you'll get into bad situations on pretty much any turn. What if you make a flush? Would you call further bets? Would you valuebet yourself? Against what? Do you think you have implieds? What do you think he will do on a 7/Q? Put a lot of money in with bare OPs etc?
I think you just have to raise the flop, when you call and improve you'll either be dead or won't get many implieds. You can't be horribly wrong with OESD+FD even though you're right that his gii range is quite strong. You also deny all his non-drawing hands their equity.


Sept. 3, 2014 | 12:46 p.m.

Good point about floating being more expensive. Floating also brings one more card on the board, so we should also consider our range and if that potential turn card would benefit our or his range more.

As a general rule of thumb I like to raise flops as bluff with at least some blocker or backdoor potential just to keep my frequencies in check. Thinking villains will notice a high raise/float frequency on these boards quite fast and it's not too difficult to adapt. They will start to float back or 3bet us small, especially since we won't be able to continue our bluffs then. So the way to go imo is just look for clear indicators that allow you to float/raise as a bluff, could be having the nutflush blocker, an OESD, a gutter+bdfd etc. Also be aware of who you are doing it against and what their and your range consists of. Bluffing QQ3r against an UTG raiser is worse than bluffing 773r, bluffing 442r from MP is worse than bluffing TT2r etc.

Sept. 3, 2014 | 12:38 p.m.

I think your ranges are a bit too narrow, SB will probably cbet a bit wider even though he shouldn't on this board. BBs call is not that unusual imo. Folding is no option and call neither, you don't improve that often and have no idea which cards are good for you. Just jam here imo.

Sept. 3, 2014 | 8:43 a.m.

Not a 3bet pre and quite easy turn call.

Sept. 1, 2014 | 11:53 a.m.

+1 for gii on the flop. You rarely improve with turn cards, you just hope that he doesn't improve. And you don't really know which cards improve him and which don't, and as he will make mostly correct bets (value, semibluffs with equity) you'll have a hard time on the turn.

Gii on the flop won't make you rich but it seems +EV following spassewr's analysis.

Sept. 1, 2014 | 11:52 a.m.

Hand History | patrick posted in PLO: 50plo straightdraw OOP c/jam?
HJ: $111.33 (Hero)
CO: $52.64
BN: $94.15
SB: $29
BB: $101.97
UTG: $98.88
Villain is 48/28/2, 29 hands. CB in 3bet pot 1/2.
- 3bet K987ss with bad suit, calls 4bet
Preflop ($0.75) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt 9 8 9 7
UTG folds, Hero raises to $1.50, CO raises to $5.25, BN folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls $3.75
Not sure if this is too thin but seems fine.
Flop ($11.25) 3 5 6 (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7, Hero raises to $31.74, CO raises to $47.39, and is all in, Hero calls $15.65
Decided to go for a c/r against his presumably wide 3betting range. I don't really like c/c and c/f seems a bit too weak, I generate good FE and am rarely drawing slim.
Turn ($113.03) 3 5 6 4 (2 Players)
River ($113.03) 3 5 6 4 7 (2 Players)
Final Pot
Hero has 9 8 9 7 CO has A 9 Q 5 Hero wins $103.53

Sept. 1, 2014 | 11:24 a.m.

Hand History | patrick posted in PLO: top2 3way OOP, semiscary turn
HJ: $50
CO: $63.82
BN: $98.73
SB: $61.36
BB: $62.18 (Hero)
UTG: $50.10
CO is 56/38, 21 3bet, 35 WTS over 169 hands. Fold to cbet in 3bet pot 56.
Preflop ($0.75) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt Q K A 9
UTG folds, HJ folds, CO raises to $1.75, BN folds, SB folds, Hero raises to $5.50, CO calls $3.75
Flop ($11.75) 9 7 K (2 Players)
Hero bets $7.50, CO calls $7.50
I should probably bet bigger.
Turn ($26.75) 9 7 K 6 (2 Players)
Hero bets $25.07, CO calls $25.07
I'm not sure what to do in this spot. The 6 improves some of his range but I'm not dead against that part and still dominate a quite large part of his range so I decided to get money in. Not sure about the sizing also but since I don't have a b/f range I figured potting it seems just fine.
River ($76.89) 9 7 K 6 A (2 Players)
Hero checks, CO bets $25.75, and is all in, Hero folds
Quite bad card, only something like the Jh would be worse. I get great odds but think I have to c/f?
Final Pot
CO wins $73.89

Sept. 1, 2014 | 11:20 a.m.

Vs a more solid opponent I would check the flop. Against him I wouldn't bet the turn (if you choose to bet the turn you must bet a lot of rivers). Not because I think the turn bet is terrible but on blank rivers your range looks a lot like busted draws, especially when he has a K you are rarely strong and since these players call too much I'd just check the turn.

Aug. 25, 2014 | 7:12 p.m.

Comment | patrick commented on PLO 50 3b 4 way pot

No pre is perfectly fine, too. Getting 4way to the flop is unlikely and you always like to have AA in a HU/3way pot with SPR <=1. If we were to know for sure the flop is 4way I think we should not 4bet, but it's not that likely to begin with.

Aug. 25, 2014 | 7:09 p.m.

I agree with betting turn, but do we really b/f? I can imagine him shoving something like 2pair+draw. Given the great odds we get it would be a real pain in the ass to fold there.

Jan. 11, 2014 | 7:42 p.m.

I can't 3bet the flop, I guess you mean when I raise the flop.
That's exactly the point I'm trying to make, there are so many bad turn cards that I'm not sure whether I want to raise the flop.

Dec. 16, 2013 | 5:59 p.m.

Hand History | patrick posted in PLO: Topset 5way, drawy board
BN: BTN: $110.86
SB: Hero: $110.30
BB: BB: $94.26
UTG: UTG: $140.02
HJ: MP: $276.20
CO: CO: $28.50
Not $ but BB, it is 50PLO
Preflop ($1.50) (6 Players)
Hero was dealt 9 A A 8
UTG raises to $2, MP folds, CO calls $2, BTN calls $2, Hero calls $1.50, BB calls $1
I don't think 3betting is an option as my hand is rainbow and it's gonna be a multiway pot anyway.
Flop ($10.00) 7 A 9 (5 Players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $3, CO folds, BTN calls $3
Here's my question. First decision is whether to lead or not. I can see merit in both lines and would like to read some more opinions.
Given we checked, the second decision is whether to call or raise the 3BB bet. Intuitively it looks like a raise, because we want to max charge them with draws and have the best hand now and often on the turn. However, there are 25 cards which take the nuts away from me on the turn. When I pot here it's gonna be 22BB with 90 or so behind, so SPR is still quite high. Even when my opponents do not hit a draw which gets there on the turn it probably kills my action. I don't think that Villains make a large mistake in this spot ever (if any) when I pot (unless someone gets in a worse set or 2pair). So I think calling is an option one should consider. Seems counterintuitive and I don't think I necessarily lose money by potting the flop, but I don't think I make much money either.

Dec. 16, 2013 | 3:26 p.m.

BTNs cbet range should be quite strong here as he can't expect to have that much FE. I would weigh his range heavily towards FDs and OESD+. When we c/r the only room where he can make a mistake is the question of whether his draws are dominated by yours and if he therefore has reverse implieds. Other than that he will basically play perfect against you. This being said I would not c/r against reasonably competent players, especially if they're capable of making moves on further streets, f.ex. calling w/ AcT9 and moving you off your set when a flush hits. I would either c/c or lead flop.

Against bad players who are easy to navigate and play basically fit or fold I can see myself c/r at times, but definitely mixing it up with c/c and leading.


Dec. 15, 2013 | 11:59 a.m.

Hand History | patrick posted in PLO: HU 100PLO brainfart 3bet bluff
SB: $265.55 (Hero)
BB: $172.20
Villain is SB 100, BB 78, 3bet 11.1. 22hands into the match, no real reads except 50% raise cbet, small sample tho. No showdowns so far.
Preflop ($1.50) (2 Players)
Hero was dealt 7 2 K T
Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2
Flop ($6.50) 7 3 6 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4.20, BB raises to $13, Hero raises to $35, BB calls $22
Since he raised 3 out of 6 cbets so far I chose to play back here. I figured a 7 and T blocker would be sufficient, but now I think I could also just fold. 357r would be better, 347r would be best I guess for pulling a move since these boards are more lockdown. My plan was to bet any turn which is not a 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or T. It now dawns on me that this is >half the deck, so my barreling options are rather bad. Looking bad this 3bet seems like quite a brainfart.
Turn ($80.70) 7 3 6 A (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $65, BB raises to $134.20, and is all in, Hero calls $69.20
Given the flop play, is there any option? I feel like I have to follow through.

April 24, 2013 | 5:22 p.m.

Hand History | patrick posted in PLO: HU 100PLO, river lead into in 3bet pot
SB: $420.70 (Hero)
BB: $115.75
Villain 3bets about 25%, only ~25 hands in. He c/r flop cbets 75% so far and I've seen him do it with 45 on 367r. In that hand I 3bet flop with blockers and continued on a brick turn (gave me a FD tho) where he jammed and I had to call and got there. He perceives me as loose and bad because I "go all in with only a flushdraw".
Preflop ($1.50) (2 Players)
Hero was dealt 6 8 Q A
Hero raises to $3, BB raises to $9, Hero calls $6
Flop ($19.50) Q 7 J (2 Players)
BB bets $11, Hero calls $11
I guess there is no other option than call.
Do we ever fold flop? Say he has 5% 3bet and we know his range consists of broadways mostly.
Turn ($41.50) Q 7 J 5 (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero bets $33, BB calls $33
I hesitated to bet because I didn't want to fold my equity to a potential c/r, but then I figured he wouldn't c/r too often. I can't come up with many hands which do this, besides possibly QJ. c/jamming overpairs would be spewy and I think he would bet/call with wraps, KKQT, OP+FD etc. because I can easily check back this flop and he has some FE.
River ($107.50) Q 7 J 5 9 (2 Players)
BB bets $54.50, Hero calls $54.50
I can't make much sense of his c/c, I struggle to construct a range he does this with. Like I said, he would probably b/c his flushdraws since he almost always has something to go with them, at least FD+GS, more likely FD+(O)P, FD+OESD etc.
I don't expect him to have bare KT often, more likely something like KKT, KT+FD etc. so he would b/c these on the turn aswell. Since I think KT and flushes are unlikely I opted to call. Another consideration was his sizing, he had 62ish left and didn't jam. I think when he bets for value he would just jam to go for max value. Half pot seemed kind of fishy.

April 24, 2013 | 5:09 p.m.

Never fold this hand to a 3bet HU. Call flop.
Not sure if jam turn is better than call, but once called, fold river, see jonna102.

April 12, 2013 | 10:35 a.m.

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