Sindri Björnsson

I like to bet 1/4 pot in spots like these.
The reason is that we could induce somthing from him with hands that would otherwise just c/f.

Flop play:
I think it's really bad to c-bet into 2 players.
The reason is you have little fold equity on this flop in 3 way pot.

Turn play: If I'm betting this turn I'm betting big. Something like potsize.
The reason is to put pressure on weak pairs and A-high and weak draws.
60% pot doesn't achieve that goal.

River
If you are betting flop and turn and not bluffing when one of the best cards in the deck hits the river, then it's a really big leak.
You have no showdown value and you need ~50% of his hands to fold for this to be +EV.
In general I would say you could make more then 50% hands fold on the river.

I wouldn't raise turn unless you have some kind of dynamic going on that justifies it.
If we raise turn we are getting into some ugly spots on the river.
And the value part of his range is likely to be crushing your hand.

I like the way you played it. I wouldn't play it any other way.

Everyone who say fold 64s preflop. What range are you calling a 3bet with.
This is what I created.
Uo-preFlop range = 45%
22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q5s+, J5s+, T7s+, 96s+, 85s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, A4o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o, 87o.

Call vs 3bet = ~50% off our pfr range.
JJ-22, AQs-A2s, K8s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T7s+, 96s+, 85s+, 75s+, 64s+, 54s, AQo-ATo, KJo+, QJo.
4bet = 5%
Some Kxs, Axs, KK+,QQ(50%), AKo, AKs.

I think if we fold 64s we are folding to much.

It's definitely the bottom of our calling range and it can't be a bad decision folding it.
But what hands are we defending vs 3-bet then?

I'm always 3-barreling vs more stationary opponents with QQ in this spot.

It can't be bad to check behind, and maybe we should do that if we don't know what to do vs a river shove.

Very interesting hand.

If we are folding QQ are we also folding AK/KQ in this spot?
Because his value-range is not likely to be 1 pair. It's always 2pair+.

What value hands can he play this way
I'm having a hard time putting him on a hand.
K5,K2,K8,8T. that play this way that beat us.
22.55.88 could also play this way.
Pokerstove.
8d8h, 8d8c, 8h8c, 5d5h, 5d5c, 5h5c, 2d2h, 2d2s, 2h2s, Kh8h, Kc8c, Td8d, Th8h, Kh5h, Kc5c, Kh2h, Ks2s, Kh8d, Kh8c, Ks8d, Ks8h, Ks8c, Kc8d, Kc8h => 24 combos with card removals.
What bluffs can he have?
This is what comes to mind.
KsTs, As9s, As7s, 9s7s, As6s, 9s6s, 7s6s, 4s3s, 76o => 20 combos.

Pot odds : If I'm calculating it right, ~60/~200 = 0.325.

For simplicity let's say he has 24 value combos and 24 bluff combos.

So he needs to have bluffs more then 35% off the time.

--------Conclusion---------- :
Correct call with the range I gave him.

If he has less then ~1/3 of his whole range as bluff combos we start to loose money.

Memo999 really good point. It's definitely going to profitable call 64s 160bb deep if we don't make random spew like I did in this hand.

I haven't put time off the table to think about these kind of situation and therefor I shouldn't be random raising this flop, it was a FMS move.

2)
I agree with you somewhat on that point.
I agree that I shouldn't raise 6h4h.
It's to random and if I haven't put the time off table to think about it's just not profitable.

I would agree not having a raising range on this flop 100bb deep.
But I do think we should have some raising range on this board 150bb+. He's just cbeting it to often and not hitting it often enough to continue vs raise.

I strongly disagree with folding 64s 160bb deep. It's not even an option,
I'm rather 4beting then folding 64s 160bb deep.

The reason I'm not folding 64s is that it plays really well vs value 3bet ranges.
And I put his 3bet range more towards value so my hand plays well vs that range.

But I'm folding hands like ATo, QJo.

icesindri on skype

Very interesting hand and interesting questions.

My approach in these situation are twofold

Nr 1 : Overbet shoving.
Reason -
We get maximum value out off his top value range when we have value hands.
We put maximum pressure on his medium value range.
That in itself is also a con, we could get him to fold these hands with over-bet that would call a smaller one.
Nr 2 : 1/2 potsize to 1/3 potsize.
Reason -
We get value from all of his value range.and gives us a good price on our bluff.
The reason we would bluff this betsize is to get him to fold the weakest part of his range.
It also gives him some room to bluff us or overvalue his overpair and shove.

How do we build raising ranges on flop and turn
Very good question. I haven't built it my self off the table so this is just my opinion.

So we are 200bb effective.
Flop raising range:
I like to have a raising range on this flop, especially vs a guy who cbets ~70%.
The hands I would use for better or worse are.
FD that don't have SD value. Some PP with low SD.
Some flopped pairs like Tx, 4x and A2.
Some bluffs like 89,J8,A5,A3 with bd fd.
Pure value hands could be slowplayed AA, KK.

As you can see I'm not choosing sets because I just like to have them in our flatting range in general. This does weaken our raising range in theory but I still think it's the right thing to do in practice.

Turn raising range:
Value - 22,44, TJ(that could be overplaying them)
Bluffs - FD with no sd value, non nut gut-shot. 78 and 89 for example.

We don't have any information about villain.

So using the sentence "I think he is never ever playing these hands like that way" isn't based on evidence but rather on your experience in these spots and you probably have some specific player or group of players in mind.

So I'm not saying it's a bad fold always but it's a bad fold if we don't have any reason to.
I do agree that against certain opponents that folding to this bet-size on the river is the correct play.
If we have a good reason behind our decision that our opponent has more then 80% hands that beat us when he takes this line.

The most important thing I would take from this hand
OP hasn't given us any information about the opponent.
When we don't have any information we can't just create facts.
That is why I would use my general game strategy and I broke it down in my last comment.

You forgot to tell us about villain.

I'm not folding in general.
I go away from general strategy if I have a read or some kind of logic that he's only doing this with Qx.

Let's break it down and let's give us that opponent is a decent regular.
Better hands that play this way.
AQs,KQs,QdJd,QsJs,AQo, KQo(1/2 off the time) = 14 combos.
Worse hands that play this way.
Could he do this with 99,TT,JJ, 9Th, TJh, 67h = 21 combos.

Total combinations = 35
Combinations you beat = 21 (60%)
Combinations you loose to = 14 (40%)

Pot odds on the river is =~ 4 to 1 or <=> ~20%.

So you need to win 20% of the time and you win 60% of the time you call if we break down his range without any information.

Conclusion
Call.

In general I don't like this play.
I would sometime deviate from general play if we have a read that his tendencies are more on the spewy side but I would need to have a pretty solid read.
Reason :
All of his value hands are going to shove the river and he has a ton of value hands.
He has occasional, just like the hand he has.
But if you combine the value hands he shoves the river with and the bluff hand he shoves the river with, we are in a bad situation and we are loosing allot by bet/calling.