fluxboy

https://web.archive.org/web/20180922153948/http://en.donkr.com/forum/plo-from-scratch---part-13a-541166

https://web.archive.org/web/20181129215331/http://en.donkr.com/Forum/plo-from-scratch---part-13b-541184

Hey Ben,

Thanks for taking the time to help us out a little. It's greatly appreciated.

I'm a live player, over 6000 hours now, $30/hr win rate (low stakes, 1-2 with some 2-5 sprinkled in). Pure low stakes grinder, lol. I've looked at the win rates for online play, and it appears that, even at the micros, 4-6bb/100 hands is rarely exceeded over time. If I look only at only my 1-2 stats (12.5 bb/hour), I'd been averaging about 37.5 bb/100 hands at 33 hands/hr. This has largely been accomplished shortstacking, but nevermind that.

My question:

Does studying GTO have any relevance to the live game?

I feel it does not. I know it sells books, courses, and software, and is essential for small edges online that can accumulate over thousands of hands a day (or hour, for that matter), but at 30 hands/hr, with bad beat bonuses, rake, and no flop drops... the live game, if it ever approximates even the softest online microstakes game, does it not become a dead game?

No one is going to make any money at 1-2 bb/hr. The variance alone will never allow any sort of win rate to materialize over any reasonable time frame. So the deciding factor in beating live games is game selection. You need big fish, and not too many regs. If you don't have that, no amount of game theory will compensate. And if you do, what use is a solver with 5-10x raises called 4-way?

Reading your responses so far, tend to point me to those conclusions. However, online doesn't seem to have much future either. It seems largely a tech race, with real time solver analysis starting to blossum, bots running rampant, and legit software tracking your every move. You mentioned, yourself, you prefer to play PLO and mixed games due to this.

This all sounds pretty grim for poker. Live is reduced to a bum-hunting endeavour, and online to Pluribus.

Am I wrong here?

Thanks, Ben, for any response. And despite any thoughts related to this silly card game, I hope you have an awesome Christmas.

That would be awesome, Peter, thank you.

Hi Peter,

Just finished your "From the Ground Up" video series. Re-watching it now, as it's simply the best series I have come across. Superb work. I'm a live player, but I have found that the six max, online players know the game. So I tend to veer towards you guys for education.

You asked for suggestions in your video. One glaring omission I have found on this website is the lack of info regarding multiway pots. I understand that it is relatively rare in the online world, but for live players ... it's all we encounter. In truth, I can't actually remember the last time I was heads up on the flop. In the forum, a post mentioned that incorporating small bet sizing but with a polarized range may be the direction to take.

Would you be interested in addressing this?