djnef01

NJpoker your thought process is completely wrong, you should be posting in a lower stakes forum. Also, I don't think you know what polarizing means. 

This is a pretty interesting spot. I think calling flop was probably a big mistake. We are left without a lot of information on the turn and v2 is clearly in a very profitable spot with his entire range here if we are folding bottom set. I keep going back and forth on this spot though because there's only really one hand that beats us and based on how we have played the hand up until this point it's possible that v2 makes this bet with a much wider range than we think.

Businessman's stack size makes this an easy call. Take flop.

I'd make it 1050

Plan for turns obv depends on how flop action occurs but as a general plan I like jamming any diamond, 9,8,7, or 6, c/r on K's and c/f any other turns.

I think a small bet would be fine in this spot against most opponents, unless for some dumb reason you would never take the bet small line with your nutted hands.Since it's a multiway pot with a super low spr, you're still putting them to a decision for their stack regardless of whether you bet 20% pot or shove..I would therefore advocate b/fing $1390. I don't have reads on these opponents though and obv this one is gonna depend on how they view you and how they'llinterpret a bet.   those axxx hands you're hoping to fold out with a shove are probably still going to fold to a gay bet. This is a cool spot to me because really regardless of bet size you are still representing the same hand. 

Is he folding AT combos to the 3bet? If so then his value range here is gonna be a lot smaller proportioned with his semibluff range.

If you think he's the kind of player that raises a lot of draws on an Ahi board in a 3bet pot then you can cib/get it in on flop. How often are you 3betting? Is villain expecting you to have a lot of air otf?

good post man, thanks for the response

just to specify, i stated that villain looked like a grinder, not an online player. down here in south florida there are lots of grinders who never played a hand online but are still good.

Is sb the type of lag that would raise the majority of his flushdraw combos otf? 

answer to this question helps us define his turn raising range a lot better. 

also, you mentioned villain is a LAG player, how does he view you? are you a tag? lag? do you cbet a lot? not a lot? if you raise turn big will he think you have flushdraw combos in your range?

edich, obviously OTT his range can be much wider, a lot of live guys like the minraise as a probe bet to find out if i'm FOS or not. they will also do it with tens full or maybe even fives full in this spot. quads is a very very small part of his range on turn, my questions is after he shoves over my overbet on river, how much of that shoving range is made up of quads versus his tx combos

After overbetting river by 2x and then getting shoved on in a spot villain knows i'm never folding? Think of it from a first level player's perspective. You guys honestly think he's shoving over an overbet with a ten often enough that I can call here?

np wp. 

I'm probably checking river behind without making the flush. 

Not a good bluff card, I think villain probably looks you up wide as fish tend to not believe 3 street lines where the board texture constantly changes.

Ob56, I am also kind of scratching my head here, villain kind of has to exactly have 74 or 54 if the shove is for value. the question is can we give him enough credit for those hands to actually fold otr? 

It depends. 

If we bet pot or close to pot, BTN will be under the impression that he has NO fold equity whatsoever and that if you're betting out you get it in with 100% of your range (also knowing that BB will probably ship in a large % of the time) so naturally his AI range will be stronger. There may be some benefit to this because it allows you to get AI vs. BB's range which you are going to be doing well against and often dominating if he doesn't have a FD. 

If we bet smaller (185-225 range) and BB ships as predicted, (or doesn't) is BTN the type that will ship over your bet with a wider range of hands because he thinks there's a chance you'll fold? If so the smaller sizing is probably the way to go.

If btn is getting it in super light then i don't see any reason not to bet/get it in here, 

raising is good, first benefit i can think of is that it will fold out some larger (non-nut) Fd's behind you a lot of the time, another is that raising pretty much will allow you to get money in vs BB's range with dead money in the middle. you'll obv also have some FE raising in this spot. 

op, can you give us an idea of what bb's donk 25% pot range is?

actually it makes perfect sense. he means villain likes to look people up. so if we lead otr villain is looking us up with a much wider range than he would value bet with. (presumably)

Grunch: I actually like leading strong otr because villain will expect you to be bluffing board pairing cards with your missed clubs a lot of the time based on your read on him. 

If river is the 2c, I value bet this all day. Def a check when J hits though, really tough for villain to have a calling range otr that you're making money against.