dissection

I would raise a bit more OTF and I would bet more OTT - around 1,25. Check-folding river on any spade and on any A, K or J. Betting 3/4 on everything else and folding to a raise.

With no reads its close, but since we are blocking some draws I would fold.

So just bet bigger since most people dont have their calling ranges elastic enough. Also by checkraising he will fold ton of hands which will give u another call otr.

As played call.

What will a shove acomplish ?

Interesting hand. I would also call pre btw. On the river I would bet-fold something like between 1/3 - 1/2 of the pot. We can still get some value from QQ, from lower flush and from 9Ts. But it is really thin though. But I am not sure how thin this is. Maybe going for check-call somewhat small bet and check-fold against higher sizing is better.

"By that reasoning you should just call flop with the nuts." What ethanol said here certainly doesn't mean we should call with the nuts OTF only. Far from that actually. BTW:

"Flop call will Always be +EV with 6 outs to the effective nuts and the best hand already somewhat often" Are you calling here with 33 too ?

Why? Could u elaborate more please?

Oh yeah, donk is better here I would say.

Never folding here. WP.

Fold flop. You are not gonna have difficult time only on most turns (which is the case), but also on most rivers (which was the case?).

What kind of fish it was ? What stats u had on it ? If it was most common type - loose passive fish - your 3bet PF is not good at all.

F: Why do you think it is not a big deal not to cbet vs. unknown weak player? What range r u giving him after his bet OTF ? And how many combos from this range are worse than your hand ?

T: What does "standard" mean to you in this spot ?

R: What range do you give villain now ?

Why Earth goes around Sun ?

If someone wants to make most money at NL5, it is actually imperative to stay "in the box". Yes, it is not 2005. But that doesn't mean bet/bet/bet line in this spot doesn't work anymore. Think w/e want, but I recommend u to watch some videos from NL100 or check out some twitch streamer, who is crushing even higher limits... and u will see this "stupid" "robotic" "in a box" bet/bet/bet line in 95%+ cases in this kind of situation.

P.S.: You got 22 hands on your villain, which basically dosn't mean almost anything. And it definitely isn't enough to go for check call line OTT in this spot. And if u saw anything worth note taking during those 22 hands ...it really doesn't matter.

And this: "If i bet the Turn, i bet sensibly the same sizing as V did when i x and he Bet. I got the Nuts, it's value even if it's V that do the betting." is actually typical sign of being results orientated. Yes, this time he made a bet. But that doesn't mean he will do it often enough. It doesn't mean you are stealing your self from value (which u r).

I didn't say you are results orientated. I said don't be (in case u are). Now, u asked us what our play is. So I am telling you, what my play is here - I bet all streets. I was trying to point out why this is my play. Again, I understand your thinking. It has its logic. It sounds well. But that doesn't mean it is the way you should approach the hand. Regarding your limit and overall population tendencies on that limit, you are just robbing your self from money (value). Yes, he could find fold button. But with hands he would fold to your shove or big bet OTR anyway. So better play is just to extract value from w/e hands he will call with 1) OTT and fold OTR 2) OTT and OTR. It is just higher +EV line. But if you actually didn't want to know our approach and you think you KNOW how it is .. then don't ask ;)

"lso you got to take in consideration other things than just "You got the Nuts there, bet/bet/bet. It's a really robotic way that will never force you to be better at poker, it doesn't make you think, it becomes an automatism.

As i was saying for what i saw so far in the Dynamics V was starting to tight his FC range IP so im pretty sure he is flirting with the Top of his range here. And he is confirming it when i X Turn and he bet with that sizing. It's a really important Infos that we pick up on Turn. When that happened, i know that V won't fold and will bet River."

You are not trying to get that much BETTER in a way you see it at NL5. That is a wrong aproach. Playing at NL5 the best way you can actually IS ROBOTIC and "stupid" if you want. But if you want to think about balancing ranges, about what your opponent thinks, about what your opponent thinks about what r u thinking ... you can .. but u will stay at NL5 forever with that approach. GL :)

Well, that worked out for you this time. But don't be results orientated here. Next time bet the turn. You will get value from many other thing which he will fold to your bet or shove OTR. GL !

Don't think too much. Especially at NL5. I know there is some logic behind your thinking. Maybe more or less. Ofc u are thinking intelligent player. But you gotta step outside that box right now and just take those bad players (yes, even regs) to the valuetown.

Don't care about balancing ranges at NL5. Bet turn 3/4 of the pot and 1/2 - 2/3 OTR.

Very cool ! You are nuts dude ! BTW: And nothing changes if we are deep as in the hand above ? Or we don't know since solvers can't solve situations for 100bb+ stacks yet ?

Well, he replied me few minutes ago and pointed me in one direction (maybe he is a nice guy afterall, lol). He told me I should watch videos from LEFORT .. actually some old videos around here on RIO. He told me LEFORT explains it in those videos and proves it mathematically.

Hand one: Well, I wouldn't say plenty, but ofc there are still a bunch of FDs. BTW: I presume you misstyped A4ss ;)

Han two: I agree with calling OTF. I missread the hand - the raise size is really low.

First hand - Well, without any special info or huge sample on villain I think it is easy fold OTF. Especially when you are holding Q of spades, which blocks a lot of FDs villain could have, which means his range will be even more set heavy.

If we give villain PF range something likes this: QQ-33,AKo-AQo,AKs-ATs,KQs,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s and we think he will raise both with FDs and sets > we will have only ~40% equity, which really sucks, because if we will give away just few combos of those FDs from this raising range ... we will be crushed. Like let's say he will not raise with FDs like: 67s, 78s, 89s (maybe he could raise with this one, but let's say no for now), T9s and JTs > we will have only ~26%.

Second hand - I don't think it is wise to 3bet QQ against EP as a default play. I would just call. As played I think it is again easy fold OTF. Similar story as above (we again are holding Q of spades which makes villains range more set heavy + he could have two pair now with T9s - if he is opening wide enough and defending wide enough from EP.

How am I protecting my range by check-calling ? What does "protecting" actually means (in this case to make it more simple) ?

Ok ok, that seems interesting ! But I still don't really get why I would like to see how my range goes against villains range in terms of equity ? How will that help me with what you said ?

Oh yeah, I forgot QQ and JJ. Why should I compare two ranges ?

"your hand is favorite against his range, but his range crushes your range" ?!

Thats why I said -usually- :) I agree with u that best reg out there are could exploit u if not at least somewhat decently balanced (especially preflop). But overall I agree with all u said.

OP: What stakes ? What site ? Fast tables or regular tables ?