ggho22

Spot at 11:00

Is there merit to actually only call this spot?

You basically have only a couple of combos of A4s (assuming that you 3bet occasionally pre or you bet the flop sometimes), most of pocket 3s and rarely the slow played flopped set. I guess you should run a bluff with pocket 4s-6s, maybe 54s or some fd to balance out the play(what do you do with Txdd?) , but still looks quite difficult and with a strong chance of running into it against two ranges.

BB should have 64s and probably all combos of A4, some two pair, sets,and different semi-bluffs. SB should have a mix of strong top pair hands, sets, fd, the occasional straight and some bluffs.

I understand that SB needing approximately 20% to continue is a drawback, but I think he is going to have a tough time playing appropriately. He is most likely folding top pair hands or worse anyway, he should probably not raise sets and the times he has A4s and wants to raise, he has to come up with the bluffs too, which seems extremely challenging.

Thoughts?

Great video as always!

33:00 vs Sam's turn overbet

Would having a heart change anything in your thought process regarding what sizing you can defend vs on the turn? I can see it going both ways. On the one side you want him to have some Txhh or Jxhh that you sometimes beat, on the other side you are much happier on the Kh or 8h. However, I am assuming you do not get to fold the straight anyway even if he shoves for 2x pot (on Kh-8h, not blocking any heart)?

Let's assume you have a heart, you still call and the flush gets there. Would you entertain the idea of leading or would you just give up since he has more flushes than you do?

Thanks

yeah it just seems weird to me that we decide to bluff with a hand which has so much show down value. i think sb's decision otr is a range check.

i also thought i used positions and not real names sry.

Zachary , i think getting folds from raggedy Kxxx is huge...

Jeans will have a hard time folding 2nd nuts aftert his vid

nice video alexo , didn't know you had it in you

no

Takes huge balls for someone to do something like this.

What mrgreen said is one of the best articles in poker I've read in years... 

I would really love to hear some very well established pros opinion on this subject it is also very weird to me that not so many pros defend him as the media has been slaughtering him...

Seems very interesting to me but my knowledge on the subject is very limited... would be really good for you if someone very strong in game theory jumped into the conversation... 

not a good idea talking so hard at GameTheory imho :)

is there a conversation about this in 2+2?

Hey guys about the turn play...

Its true that we don't expect him to fold..ever but don't we need some bluffs in our x/shoving range anyways ?

I mean i was looking for mr G's poker knowledge to make me better at poker when really i should've been looking for a psychiatrist.

like

Hey Phil !

40:30 , What would be the worst hand you would value bet in that spot ? (river) 

Would you bet the turn with AQ ? Would you bet call the river with AQ if u had check the turn ? 

"That seems to contradict everything you said above."

 I meant that if he isn't going to bet a set , a 7 high straight or two pairs he is either betting a 8 high straight a 9 high straight or a bluff. So if his range includes much more set/2pair/straights than air we should fold the river...

I could be wrong but i think you are way off here and that's the point of my thread.

In his eyes i'm repping either a straight or a set or maybe a huge draw. (1)

The "7" on the river gives any hand that includes a "4" and is calling the flop a straight. Lets agree that he wouldn't be betting a 7 high straight by the river.

Also i really don't think he would be bluffing with a set on the river (although a set is unlikely since i think he would be betting that otf) 

I Also believe that he wouldn't be bluffing with 2pair on the river although i'm not sure of that.

Sooo if you believe that my assumptions are correct by the river he has a 7 high straight , a set , 2pair , or an 8 or 9 high straight A H U G E % of the time. 

I could see him bluffing with stuff like 87XX that missed although these stuff shouldn't have a "4" or a "9" in them and based on my assumptions neither a "6"."5"."3","K" . I really think that this narrows too much his bluffing range. 

Given that and that  he considers my range pretty strong (1) , meaning that by the river the bottom of my range is a set i don't think that he is too likely to be bluffing unless he has something like 887x.

so i  think i have an easy fold by the river even with this guy's crazy bluffing frequencies.

i wish i was good with ppt so i could try to prove my point mathematically 

effective stacks are 6k~ 

i'm not viewed as a nit or a scared player, i could give more info but i wanted to give emphasis on the specific river card "7" , and how much would someone use it to bluff 

But what combo's of JT are u x/c otf ?

* i think i got this figured out stuff like JTK5ds , AJT5 etc ^^       one other thing is that everyone said that it's either a x/f or a x/r                                                                                                                        lets assume that we are in this spot ott with the nuts , isn't a x/c better for range disguise and range protection?

Nice video! i remember steve444 making a vid for live mtts but its nice that someone made a vid for live cash games as well.

I have 1 question which has nothing to do with anything you said you can ignore or even remove if you think its inappropriate. However i do think its really important in live cash games (Especially private) with all the shady personalities playing in them.

Let's assume that you are playing in a live game and think that somebody is cheating somehow even with the dealer's help , do you have any suggestions about how to make sure if he is or not ? 

i agree with many things you said however no one said anything about the turn play which i think i am making a mistake in. Do you think x/c ott is good at all ?

checking is best because you will have alot of hands that you will want to check on that board when you raise the SB so checking is indeed good for your range, however if the fish OTB has a 60% fold to cbet and a 5% raise CBET you can get away with cbetting that board ^^ 

People talking of 10bb/100 winrates like its a simple thing... its 2014 people wake up... 

turn is a must bet even if he didn't block the 5 we are playing against an UTG range 45 is very very rare 

wp i just don't know about the turn bet , 55% i think is too low since in these spots most of the times we are getting value on the turn and getting folds otr 

checking back turn and folding to a shove otr is exploitative not optimal imo 

ZenFish although i agree with what u are saying i'm thinking this : If we don't raise flop with this hand , what are we raising flop with ? Will u be more inclined to raise with A6KhXh or KKh4h5 or stuff like that ? because it seems to me that if we don't raise this hand we shouldn't have a raising range at all in this spot 

"I like having constant position on an opponent and attempting to abuse him/her whilst trying to avoid getting killed by the guy/girl to my left."

Yeah i guess the perfect game for all of us would be if we had position on the loose fishes and have some tight regs to our left. But that has nothing to do with fairness. In Zoom games everyone gets the chance to have the fish to their right but sometimes the loose crusher to their left too. That's fairness that's how poker should be played. Even opportunities for everyone.

 I'm sorry if u don't like to play with a disadvantage but sometimes that's how it goes. You could get a lot better playing like that as well..

"Watching someone's play alter hand-by-hand is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the game"

I understand that but i don't think it's such a big deal as you can still watch previous hands play out.

Last thing i want to say is , technology evolves maybe 10 years ago some of us played without any trackers without even betting slider options or 4 color deck. Things changed , yes its weird to fast fold doesn't feel right in the beginning but in the end its pretty much the same thing guys...

I think you should focus on how to make ZOOM better like convincing PStars that they should take less rake in ZOOM tables because games might dry out faster with zoom (1Z table = 4x normal) and other stuff but trying to convince them to remove ZOOM ? why ? Do you like getting hit n runned ? Do you like mediocre bumhunters and ppl who use seating programs make more money than you (who might be 5x better ?) Do you like games instant break when the fish busts ? 

Yes there are some things that should be made but i strongly believe zoom is for the best. 

I don't think that zoom is something very different than normal tables. 

(1)Tilt opportunities - i don't think so. players might be a little bit tighter but game is so fast that if a weaker soul gets 4-5 bad beats in a row i've seen them loose control and spew too hard. Also if u tilt in zoom u can loose ALOT of $$.

(2)Game flow,dynamics etc - I see alot of ppl saying that, personally i don't believe it, i ve played a serious amount of zoom500/200 and i can certainly say i have build dynamics vs some regs. Yes you won't play in the same table with 6 specific opponents but you play 5x as many hands (maybe more) so histories can build pretty fast. Also the game fundamentals are the same. Against fishes i believe everyone gets their chance. Yes those who 4x Zoom have more chances to play against the fish but lets face it its alot worse on regular tables. 

(3) Player reads - As i said i've played a serious amount of hands in ZOOM i can say i have more than 25k hands sample vs certain players which if i'm smart and observant i can use against them (even without a hud) 

(4) Discipline - I don't believe that because of (1)

(5) Competitive - Completely disagree on that one. In Zoom , u can't bumhunt yes you can check the lobby and if u feel it is weak join but no one guarentees you that the action won't get tougher in the next 15mins. Everyone is forced to play vs everyone. Some of the sickest graphs i've seen are from bumhuntes who i'd never say are elite players. Zoom is far more gently competitive than todays normal games.

(6) Less emotional - (1) + in Zoom you often have a +6 BI upswing and 20min later u get a -10 BI downswing (if the right people playing ;) ) . i would say that is emotional.

(7) Less spots to win battles of reciprocity - I'll have to agree with that. 

However i wouldn't say all this for high stakes games too , i've never played them and i don't know how they run but from my experience it would be good if everything from 1k and below was zoom considering the situation of today's normal games.