busisi

thx for great vid.
37min K9s on A4Q3T board
can u tell me more about that spot why the Tx is good to bluff?
and are there any other cards good to bluff?
I couldn`t fully understand which our range turning into bluff on the river with Tx as well.
always thx for nice vid : )

Thank you midori for the detailed comment : )

(we have QQ blocker and can rep a straight if the turn comes K or T. Say, the turn is T, he leads and we raise - there isn't much he can do about it with his 2p/sets or even a straight, other than just calling or bluff catching again on the river, or just folding right away. 

So if they both check to you again on turn, you can now bet for value/protection, only against weaker ranges this time.  That's some valuable information you gained, by checking back flop.)

It`s just great and made me think more deeply about the blocker and reading base on their actions.

I also lean toward to check back but it depends on our opponent

IMO he will continue FD, Sets(66, QQ which seems like he doen`t have), some clover redraw when we bet again. it also depends on your bet sizing.

we block the K so if he has straight maybe 89.. but it`s second nut.. hard to x/r strongly unless he has A or K blockers.  

If he check there are not many cards that we can value bet on the river unless Ts which gives him a flush. other cards can not extract any value from his range. (if he is a normal player not a station)

so if we want to get some value from him, need to bet on the turn and protect our hand but it`s gonna be thin value..

I would over limp PRE unless I am on the BTN or CO (have a read that BTN is very tight) and also another reason is that KK is very good multiway pot hand so I over limp here.

Flop, I would check as well with my naked over pair in the 5way pot. 

Turn, I would check again because we are not in position and we are not nut flush draw (negative implied odds.) 

and more likely when the flush card arrive on the river we can`t get much value from people unless the other players have it as well (when people see the 3 flush cards on the board, they are froze, only they have a nut they will give some action which is awkward for us. I don`t want to put my whole stack with my second nut flush in mutliway pot.

also as you mentioned we are OOP (hard to play and not easy to extract value from opponents)

in multiway pot, most of the time I will play fit or fold. 

(I just can't see enough bluffs in his range, and he has tons of 2p or better on this turn (and most 2ps will have a redraw and/or a straight).  Maybe he can play hands like 876 this way)

yes.. I think so his range is almost always ahead than mine. 

thanks midori :D

(he will usually bet again. and since his range is prob a lot of weirdly played pair+gutter, and 2ps...) 

yes I could see it often in micro stakes.. :(  

thanks for reply spassewr :)

(but sadly he can't have many bluffs in this spot.) 

I admit that.. sometimes just don`t want to be bluffed out. But!!! I read the article about folding.. it`s just beautiful.. I was totally shocked and could have a peace in my mind lol. thanks midori.

I`m not gonna say I`m right because I`m also learning the PLO from low stakes.

what I want to say is that it`s just my opinion : D

(so what about JJ44 or TT44? Just fold these?) => I think just call and see the flop as cheap as possible on the SB to set mining. I also agree with you 44 doesn`t well coz it`s too low. 

As you said there are many ugly turn.. it`s hard to continue at OOP 

Here are some Questions  

If the card arrived which except Q (not spade : 1 out ) any cards are hard for us 

if you are willing to bet the river, is it value bet?

1) Can we keep involve this pot flop to river with a naked over pair? 

2) Can we call a over 1/2 sized river bet? 

I prefer to 3bet on the pre and just call on the flop with overpair + nut FD + gutshot at OOP in the high SPR.

I just prefer to over call on the preflop with QQ44 ss 

as you played, the flop I would like to check and make the pot small against 2 opponents at OOP 

because we don`t have any back-up just naked over pair (2outs) and they can have some drwas (FD, SD, and some one or two pair + draw) or better over pair KKxx

they can have any hands because here is $25 limit, players really like to see the flop with any hands even low marginal rundowns.

also you can be check-raised when someone has strong draw

so I will check and see the action and if BB bets and UTG calls I fold, if BB checks and UTG bets quiet big, I also lean toward to fold. 

turn is obviously check-fold , river as well.

it`s just my opinion. I hope my thinking process can help you : )

I totally agree with above guys said, especially for zoom PLO. it is too hard to play at OOP the low rundowns which has a gapper on the middle. when you hit the flop it can be one pair or two pairs that should be the bottom pairs that means very hard to play against many opponents(very loose callers in $25 PLO that I`m also playing) even HU pot. 

post flop play also agree with ZenFish. 

I am just a PLO newbie that is learning hardly nowadays. 

my reply may help you and someway you can advice to me about my thinking process. 

BWT what`s his stat? do u have any read about him?

If I guess he is a random player, I would like to put his 3 betting range here AAxx , any premium 4 cards, good rundown, speculative hands with DS. 

on this flop he could CB QQ+ , AJxx dd or cc back door , 

on the other side I think there is not many combos any rundowns include 5 because we block the rundowns (ex: 5678, 5789, 5689..) and also we block some diamonds. 

so I think his range way toward to over pair or AKQJ type which is`t blocked. 

how he thinks about our range? 

exclude AAxx which we didn`t 4 bet 

some FD, some rundowns include J (he probably thinks he is ahead) , weak over pair + some redraw

or sometimes slow down with 5 or JJ 

based on the range I also agree with above guys said flat call on the flop and turn raise, (I assume his turn bet is quiet small unless he has the boat+)   

the river decision I don`t think we can call here. 

our range that call down here completed everything. if he is thinking player, I think he can shove with just naked over pair or some weak made draws.

I`m impressed from your post. cheer up crayon !

I should learn more about how think the line and range also which cards on the turn how magically change our equity and need to change our line.. thanks midori as always ! :D

honestly speaking I put him on a kind of bad aggro at that time based on the hud that I think not that good with just small sample.. so I thought I could get value from him also I wanted get all in with his one pair type hand or some weak draw (although we have weak SD..) 

now I regret that I was not thinking deeply about his range and my range also about whether my betting is for value or bluff.. I am sure I just played like a bot : ( 

I feel I still need to learn a lot about PLO.. 

Thank you for your question Tom and always welcome any advice and comments :D

Thanks Snowman for your advice! I could think this hand another way : )

Oh.. I can`t fix it. just remove the Jon Doe, it`s against BTN. Sorry guys

Hi midori, thaks for your great advice. it`s very helpful :D

this HH has problem I didn`t check it before post.. it`s my fault : (