bnoise
11 points
Hi, there's plenty of free material online about 6max and heads-up, but what opening ranges are you using with 5 handed, 4 handed, 3 handed?
I play in a low traffic room, for 5/4 handed I just use my 6max ranges and then quit the table when it's 3-handed. I suppose it's wrong and I should open more because you pay more blinds per hand. Also I miss nice opportunities to play with two fish.
I just need a rough % for the average TAG.
Nov. 3, 2018 | 12:28 a.m.
Villain is a 25/17 regular over 9k hands, 3bets 7% against UTG for what is worth.
I've seen him flatting 4bets with AA, QQ, TT. I think he can flat with AK too. Maybe flatting AQ would be too lose against UTG?
I can't even tell if I played it right or wrong after the flop :D Should I bet 33% pot any flop?
Can he really turn QQ or TT in a bluff like that? He saw me check/calling with strong hands sometimes, so AA and AK should be in my perceived range, I think.
Oct. 18, 2018 | 5:55 a.m.
I think the main problem with x/raising the turn is he could check back his top pair and overpairs, and then have an easy call on safe rivers.
The double check raise seems really strong, I used to make it sometimes with nuts. Can we make him fold something better than Jx like overpairs?
Sure, I would fold QQ and KK as played and probably call AA without the A of diamond, depending on your stats.
Sept. 11, 2018 | 7:05 a.m.
What Jeff_ said I 100% agree.
I would consider also x/calling turn because often (at very small stakes) people put you on AK when you 3bet them, and if there is no A or K on the board they spew like crazy when you check, even hands like 44-77. But mostly cbet that turn.
I wouldn't be concerned about an 8 because even if he calls 3bet too wide EP vs BB he could have 88, 98s, 87s, A8s = 7 combos.
Sept. 11, 2018 | 6:33 a.m.
5bet size: I just shove if less than 130bb. I 5bet rarely with 200bb (small size like 2x) and I wouldn't know what to do with more than 200bb, I'm still trying to understand :D
Sept. 11, 2018 | 6:05 a.m.
I played a lot of zoom from NL2 to NL25 with HUD, on ps.it wich could be a little different from ps.com. It would be logic to think that population is overfolding pre, but I found out that is not the case. Sure you will find more nits in comparison to regular cash game, but there are way too many whales and LAGs. That's why I think is better to open 3x from early positions.
If you want to open up your ranges against a loose passive player I think is better to add hands like K9 instead of hands like 54s (and the opposite against nitty players).
4bets I just go with 2.5x (100bb effective stacks) and I found out it works fine for value and bluff, oop and ip. However I think if fine to play with sizes as long you remember smaller size = more bluffs but also less fold equity, but you already know : )
Sept. 11, 2018 | 6:02 a.m.
Nice hand IMO, you represent a flush for sure.
On the turn it's hard to fold such a small raise, with bigger size I think it's a bet / fold.
What does he have? People at NL5 can flat SB with lots of hands, including Ad5d, 54s, T8s why not. He could have a flush with AhXh, there are only 7 combos though and usually people x/raise the flush draw on the flop, not on the turn. AdXd makes more sense.
On the river he has 21% pot odds after your all-in and he folds, if he had a strong hand (but not a flush) I think he would x/call.
Sept. 7, 2018 | 5:30 p.m.
Hi, I play NL10 and NL25 in a very little room, full of fishes.
However there's one regular who makes things interesting, it's loose aggressive and in 15k hands he folded almost every 4bet to my shoves, so there's definitely 4bet bluffing and 5bet bluffing on both sides.
I'm pretty confident with these dynamics (maybe I'm wrong, but nothing bad happened aside from occasional coolers). Problems arise when we both have 200bb or 300bb stacks. I don't think 5betting all-in would be good with QQ and AK, and even KK I'm not sure he can call with worse.
5-bet size
We both open 3bb, we usually 3bet around 9-12bb, and we both 4bet 2.5x around 22.5-27bb.
What is the right 5bet size? Around 50-60bb? Or should we 3bet and 4bet larger?
5-bet range
With 200-300bb I think I want to stack off only with AA, and I don't want to 5bet / fold KK against such aggressive player. Ok: I don't want to 5bet / fold KK because I would feel stupid... So I would flat 4bets with KK and worse, and 5bet AA plus some bluffs (like A5s combos). How many bluffs depends on sizes and stacks. I made a spreadsheet, basically bigger 5bet means less bluffs, bigger stacks (6bet shove) means more bluffs, more equity for a 6-bet bluff means less bluffs in 5bet.
6-bet range
AA and bluffs, in theory. I can do 5bet bluff and maybe he can do, but can we do 300bb 6-bet shove bluffs? I don't know. However, there's a little possibility he could overplay KK or AK and just shove it. Reality: I think against a 50-60bb 5bet we would both flat to play and pray postflop. However this changes calculation of value/bluff ratio of 5bet. I guess I can go with the highest value/bluff ratio and maybe adjust over (lot of) time.
Do you agree?
Would you just avoid 5betting?
Would you ever bluff a 200-300bb shove?
Sept. 6, 2018 | 5:50 a.m.
Hi!
Personally I don't like leading the flop, unless aggressor cbets with very low frequencies (or some other strange situations). I don't think there's a rule saying no to donkbets, but be sure to know what kinds of hands you want to lead, check/call, and check/raise. For example you may want to lead weak draws, 2pairs or better on drawy board, or other stuff I can't think about, x/raise with strong draws and strong made hands, x/call with middle pair, etc etc.
Also keep in mind that he has some monster in his range (JJ+, AK) but you have none, because you didn't 3bet preflop. So leading feels a bit weird to me.
In this spot I like to 3bet preflop, cbet that flop, check the turn and go from there.
Your bet on the turn wants money from draws, and looks like draws are in your range, but the K can be in his range way more than in yours. AK of diamonds, KX of diamonds for sure. If CO plays like me I'm gonna have a big part of my broadways overcards because I hate folding a flop donkbet.
River to me is a check/call as played, unless he bets very big.
By betting on the river you make weakest hands folding (or in a difficult spot to hero-call, with 99 for example), and better hands calling or shoving.
Instead, if you check/call he will be tempted to bluff his busted draws, and you save money if he has it (I'm thinking 65s, slowplayed sets, KX, and so on).
Sept. 6, 2018 | 2:19 a.m.
Not sure about this, but I try.
His pot odds are 44 / (44+44+37) = 35%
So your range should be 35% bluffs (AK) for him to be indifferent to call or fold.
QQ+ on that board are 13 combos, so you need 7 combos of AK.
It's probably more complicated than this because it's not the river, you still have equity if called.
Sept. 5, 2018 | 11:10 p.m.
SetMineUrAss bluff/value ratio of 3bettor depends on the 3bettor, but in theory the biggest his 3bet size is, the biggest part of it he should defend against a 4bet. If you open 3bb and they 3bet 9bb, I think they should have 60% bluffs and 40% value/continuation. If there's lot of dead money in pot, this changes.
There are many different spots, many opponents, and someone will adjust their 3bet range based on your way of playing.
For example:
If you fold too much to 3b, I think a polarized range would be good (I 3bet 76s because you fold, if you call your hand is better than mine but I have playabilty post-flop).
If you flat too much to 3b, a merged range would be good (I 3bet AJs because you can call with worse).
If you 4bet too much to 3b, I'm flatting AQ but 3betting A5s and planning to bluff shove to a 4bet (because you fold you tons of 4bet bluff).
If you call 5bet lighter, than I should shove lighter, so I should have more shoving hands in my 3bet range, and so on...
Typically when people 3bet in position they have a polarized range, but not always (I'm speaking NL2 - NL25, my experience). LAGs likes to 3bet a merged range in my games.
When people 3bets OOP (mostly blinds vs CO and BTN) they usually have a merged range because they have to play more postflop (BTN likes to call 3b in position) and with position disadvantage. That's also why OOP people 3bets with larger size than IP.
Sept. 5, 2018 | 5:46 p.m.
So a 70% call pf 3b is just about about right.
I think you mean fold pf 3b.
Of course, the question would be what of that 30% of the original OR are we 4b'ing with and what % are we calling 3b's with, and how are those combos distributed.
This I can answer. In that 30% (or, better, 45%) of hands we defend we 4bet the value hands, meaning hands we are happy to call a 5bet shove (usually AK, QQ+ and sometimes JJ). Then we add a bluff combo for every value hand, meaning we 4bet and we fold to a shove. You choose the bluff 4bet combos out of the be the worse combos of your 30% (45%) defend range, also the ones with the nicest blockers. I think that's more art than science. The rest of the range we flat.
Why 50/50 value/bluff? This has to do with typical 4bet sizes. So, if we open BTN 3bb, SB 3bet 12bb and we 4bet 30bb, it's not 50/50 anymore, it's more 60% value and 40% bluffs. The bigger our 4bet, the bigger part or our 4bet range we have to defend (meaning calling a shove, with 100bb deep). If you want math details there are articles on donkr.com (optimal 3bet 4bet strategies).
Sept. 5, 2018 | 5:22 p.m.
SetMineUrAss, given usual preflop sizes you should defend (call or 4bet) 30% of your opening range to deny auto-profit to aggressive 3bettors.
But it's suggested to defend 45% of your opening range. Almost everyone agree to this number and I don't know why, maybe someone can explain?
Sept. 5, 2018 | 3:39 p.m.
On the turn your bet is fine, I think you can go bigger (40-45 cents) with your value hands and with your semi-bluffs (Tx and clubs).
When CO checks the flop and raises the turn, at this stake, could be:
- AT. 16 combos. I would bet, but, you know, there are slowplay fans out there)
- T9: 16 combos, or 4 combos if it's only T9s
- KK. Makes more sense cause he's blocking part of your calling range. But we have a K so only 1 combo of KK in his range.
- 55. 3 combos
- Other strange stuff like top pair no kicker or better. But QJ, JJ and QQ I think they bet flop more than checking. I'm thinking more of K9s, K8s.
- Some clubs draw. However many players would just call instead of raising.
So I would not fold on the turn, but I prefer to call the turn raise to keep his bluffs in. Out of position however your shove is not so terrible and if opponent is sticky could bluff catch with worse. But he would lay down clubs draw.
Sept. 5, 2018 | 3:15 p.m.
I don't hate the turn play, you give him an opportunity to bluff. I'd like a bet also, not for protection against sets but simply because a river bet can be bigger.
River I agree overbet is not ideal, looks almost you're bluffing a full house, if you bet half pot you can represent a K / Q / J high flush.
People often flat preflop with low-medium pocket pairs, suited connectors and broadways.
You lose to: TT (3 combos) 66 (1) 7 (3) 76s (2) 9d8d (1) = 10 combos
It's weird he didn't raise the flop with these hands (except for straight flush), but it's possibile he wanted to raise the turn, and 2d ruined his plan.
Your value range on the river looks like A of diamonds or better, and he still raise. I am thinking about what bluffs can he have, and I don't know. Can he really turn into bluff a hand like 88, 87s, JTs...? Against an overbet? I think it's more a "no" than a "yes". As played, I fold the river too.
Sept. 5, 2018 | 2:51 p.m.
Villain is loose preflop but displays a willingness to only stack off with a monster.
You can't be sure with that with just 9 hands! Call it, you have 40.2% equity against QQ+ and AK, and your pot odds are (5.15-1.36)/(5.15+5.15+0.02) = 36.7%
With 100bb deep your 4bet range should be made of value hands (4bet / call shove) and bluffs (4bet / fold shove). There's nothing wrong putting QQ in your bluff 4bet range, if population or opponent stacks off with better, but:
1) you have to be very sure about thiss
2) if you're sure, I think would be better to (cold) call the 3bet with QQ and put A5s and similar in your (cold) 4bet / fold range. Or KQ / AQ as round2 says, cause you block more premium combos.
Sept. 4, 2018 | 3:26 p.m.
Wow interesting hand. It's not my stake so I really cannot gave you useful advice.
His call can't be so exploitative because you guys have little history (52 hands).
Maybe he could think that 77-TT would check behind river? Don't know.
Also your bet at the river is pretty large, so maybe he could think you got more bluffs in your range. Would people usually shove KK on the river with this kind of boards? It's a real question, I don't know how to play NL100.
Sept. 4, 2018 | 10:24 a.m.
I think you can flat AQ or 3bet if you saw him call with worse.
I don't like to have a flatting range from SB when CO or BTN opens, but if UTG opens I'm ok with flatting, especially if BB 3bets too tight.
I would bet the turn as played, but not all-in, or his calling range destroys us.
If you bet half pot or less, instead, he could call with worse: KQs, QJs, TT, JJ, T9s, AK if he's getting sticky.
Also I don't think you need protection, the board is not draw-heavy, only draw is JTs (just 4 combos) and gets there on the turn.
Other stuff you're behind is 98s (2 combos) and QQ+ traps (13 combos).
I also like check/calling turn, can't say wich is better, I guess it depends how much opponent likes to float.
Getting raised on the turn, I don't know, looks like a hand that beat us or a flush draw, but there are not many FD that gets on the turn (AQ, AK, AJ maybe?), so I would fold.
Sept. 11, 2018 | 9:26 a.m.