blackwater

oh, shoot disregard what i said. I misread the hh and thought we were raised on the turn.

i like a check back on the river. If he has air, you're not getting any value. If he has anything less than a king, he's rarely calling again after he raised you on king turn, you call, and then bet again on the river. What does your range look like to villain after all of this?

As played, i'd bet fold. As the hand played out, you could clearly have a king and he clearly doesn't care and still ships it, which looks like Kx or more likely two pair, sets.

cash, i only 2 - 4 tables.at a time. Always have and always will.

when i play sngs, i play only small stakes like $10 - $20. Mainly just for entertainment and to wind down after playing. I've always been good at sngs/mtts so i usually walk away with additional money towards my roll.

Oh, the days are still here to print money. Post bf and in the recent past, i deposited a small amount of $200 starting at 10nl-25nl and I'm now just about to move to 200nl. Other than my initial deposit and stake i started at, i've been taking a fairly conservative approach to bankroll management moving up whenever i have 40 buy ins for the next level. I play 6-max cash game NL. I do play sngs but only when my brain is too tired to keep up with cash games. Haven't played too many mtts post bf. I'm from America so not quite the same games you're probably able to play.

Hey man good luck. It's possible to grow a roll in your circumstance as you believe. Pre-black friday days i built a roll from like $5 to over 20k and got up as far as 400nl level. Then i took a bad beat from the usa government, but that's a story for another day.

does for me now too.. weird.

i do have to correct myself. I was thinking this is a 3bet pot, but btn (hero) just iso'd. That said, it still doesn't change my view much on calling suited connectors and smaller pp's in sb or bb. In this spot with the fish, I'd actually 3bet my stronger hands (rather than call) to get more money in the middle and hopefully isolate the fish and get a fold from the reg.

It might be worth looking at your database and seeing how much you win/lose in these situations.

i dont think it's incorrect to call the correct range weighted towards stronger pp's and facecards, preferably suited. Of course the range will depend on the fish and the 3betters range, but i think in general calling suited connectors and smaller pp's oop and in the blinds without closing the action and sometimes even when closing the action is often a leak because you're often going to be looking to only hit your flush or straight or set to continue post flop and will be folding so often post flop so you're essentially lighting money on fire. I'd often rather 3b/4b than call if i want to play these hands.

i could very well be wrong on my assumption of the general populations 4bet range at these stakes. If your read is more accurate than mine, i would agree with you that we can lighten our opponents 4b range and our 4b calling range in this spot here a bit.

I used to play 200nl-400nl+ pre BF, but i also admit that being american and due to BF, i've somewhat recently had to rebuild my roll from scratch and i'm now getting back to 100nl - 200nl level so i could be wrong.

It's really kind of a gross spot. because by checking, you induce the fish with an opportunity to make a mistake and stab at the scare card. Not only just a king scare card, but the flush completed. Fish love to bet on these cards when it looks like you've given up. It's gross because since you checked, you should call, however your hand is very vulnerable since you only have a pair of 8's and no heart.

I think you might be better off barreling the turn and folding to a raise. If you take this line and fish calls, probably have to check fold river.

of course villain made a mistake calling on the flop. But most weak players will think they've got two overs so should be alright to call the flop and see if they hit on the turn. It's a good thing they think this way and make a note because you'll make some decent money off players like this who call flop at a high % and then fold to a turn barrel when they miss.

That said, i think your flop cbet is pretty bad. 3 handed, two toned, and could be seen as drawy that hits their hand in one way or another or they may think it's a scary texture and try to bluff you off your hand and you'll end up folding when you shouldnt. . You're going to get a lot of calls often and leak money often. River i dont know why you checked it back.

From what you described, it looks like to me that SB called preflop with likely decent PP such as TT+, wanting to bring the fish along. Since the fish did not call pre, he opted to cr flop to get more money in the middle to make it easier to get stacks in on a later street or to protect a hand like TT-JJ and maybe qq. I think calling the flop is fine and looking for another 9 > Ace > heart on the turn. If i dont hit one of those, and as the hand played out on the turn, i'm folding the turn.

I guess it's possible sb incorrectly called 67s or small pp pre and flopped a set, but probably unlikely if he's a competent reg.

Now see this is where we differ. I completely agree with, "I feel like if there's little information on our oppoent then we should probably rely on player pool tendencies to guess at his 4betting range". From my experience at small stakes, i dont see too many people getting out of line with 4bets in position (and often oop) unless we've been 3betting them often and they think we're doing it light. I dont see this information provided by OP so i'm not including it in my decision. If we haven't been involved too much with this person, i'd rather wait and see if we can gain any more reads on the frequency at which he's 4betting and/or if we get any other reads such as seeing him doing it lightly.

I play anonymous and I pretty much agree with your assessment, up. It's really close and a very polarized situation. If he's gotten out of line at all during this session, spewed or bluffed, been fishy, i'm probably calling.

yeah but doesn't that assume this person is exploiting us? We dont know that this is the case. Could just be an isolated incident with the top of his range. I'd much rather AQs be in my 4bet oop calling range than AQo. Are we really that thrilled when we flop a Queen or even Ace vs an unknown 4bet range that could be skewed to kk+ AK. We pretty much have to stack off if we call this and flop an ace or Q and i think we're going to be behind often when the money goes in. I just think we can wait for more reads. I think in this particular spot, it's very obvious we're up against AK and OP was able to outplay.

Obviously if we learn that villain is overplaying AK in this spot or his range is lighter than i said, we can open our calling range and look to outplay post flop.

if i'm reading correctly that he's sb and you're bb, might as well let him barrel into you and ship the river on him.

seems like the turn would be a good spot to bet most of the time unless you're expecting him to fold all air/weak and bet his entire range on a king when checked to.

i think you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by saying you will never cr/donk flop, almost never turn. Might as well keep those in your arsenal and use when applicable for the best possible gain.

Also, and i dont know what games you play in, but hopefully you're only 'balancing' with regs. Not much point in 'balancing' vs weak/fish players. They just aren't paying attention. Personally, i hardly even worry about balancing at all except maybe vs a really good reg. I play anonymous so it's pretty much never.

you also made a statement about playing 'lag'. here;s a different perspective.. why not just take the approach of playing optimal per the table dynamics?

i like betting turn, but regardless, check call river. you said he's an aggro fish so let the aggro fish be and aggro fish and make a mistake.

against an unknown i dont see any reason not to be barreling again on the turn. Maybe if up against someone with reads who is likely to float or whose 3bet calling range is super tight.

I agree with up. Would be tougher and i probably wouldnt lay it down to a standard size bet. But the over jam just looks like nuts.

i think you can 3b bigger preflop and cbet bigger. call the 4b.

i feel like it's a natural instinct to want to shove for protection or get the money in and especially 100bb, but with the businessman aspect, calling and playing postflop poker sounds great.

check back turn.

on river, without you betting the turn, he can't rely on you betting/barreling the river so he's going to be more inclined to bet his slow played hands, weak pairs, and bluffs. The times he's not bluffing, the pot is controlled so you're not losing much.

two different strategies.

start at the beginning with learning the fundamentals. depending on the size of your roll, start out at 10nl to 25nl.

I think as played, you made the right play by shipping the river.

calling AQo to a 4b oop against an unknown player/possible reg is probably marginal.

i agree about betting the turn. Since the turn didn't really change much, it's very likely they're going to call the turn just as they did the flop. I think OP missed value by not betting the turn.

larger probably looks a little more bluffy. AK or Kx is in your range so obv want him to think we're betting on the scare card and either look us up with ace high or try to steal with a shove.

i do prefer flatting this preflop. i think you're going to hide the strength of your hand often because a lot of regs and weak players would think this is an auto 3bet. post flop as played on the river, unless we can get 3 streets because they're that weak, i think i like a check/call better than a shove against this type of player. you're giving him an opportunity to make a mistake rather than making it a pretty easy call/fold on the river.

regardless of result, i still agree with a call and especially with the passive post flop approach you took with this hand.