Th7TrueHeartLiesInOldNature

too much said here already, dont need to repeat after them, just want to add to your question why do you bet, whether for value or protection or what. this kind of thinking doesnt fit into this situation at all. i would say more adequate question is whether bet or check has higher EV and why, then you will come to the answers that were given here. also you have around 38% eq. against a straight if they dont hold your outs, double bdfd adds some % on top. if your opponents collectively hold a straight 56% of the time, then SPR of 2 becomes a huge caption of the pot for you, since you get to fold them out 44% of the time. if they call you more hands, that means higher EV for you since u will be favorite. never check back on this flop.

If you believe a recent sample (lets say 200K hands) should be the most representative of how good a player is (instead of a lifetime sample), you should probably investigate places (not only on this forum) i posted few graphs since then and won some cents. I would be very ashamed or rather reluctant to post my thoughts on any topic without being confident in what am i saying, or having a sample that can support it.

(100bb eff. stacks talk). I see very vague and short arguments on 3betting from blinds. Some day i will regret saying stuff i am saying, but i just cant let it go,because my eyes are bleeding and burning. 3bet percentage depends on the opener's RFI%.This is kind of too obvious and logical for me, yet everytime i see talks about this topic, i feel like many people dont get it. the more he is opening, the more i should be 3betting (more hands with equity edge against wider range), even from BB..
Positional disadvantage is cut to minimum since you 3bet hands for value and your strategy is to pot many flops to shove turn and make it 2 streets instead of 3. exceptions are paired flops where its retarded to pot or flops where you have so big advantage it also doesnt make sense to pot, but rather make it 3 streets (AKx , AQx and such). This is my conviction, take what u want.

EDIT: Thumbs up for OP really trying to think through these spots.

i would give up, look at what are u even trying to fold? his range is straights and full houses, he is never folding FH and you dont know how big percentage of FH is his range, in addition you dont know his tendency if he is so fishy he will call straights. i really dont like to bluff in this spot because his range is very well defined (too narrow) and his call tendencies are unknown

From my rich experience, (i mean it) i tried to finnish river by bluff jam, after so many burned stacks i learned my lesson their turn calling range is 90%+ flushes and rest is random FH and on river i have 20% fold equity at very best..No, they dont care they hold Q high flush, it doesnt even matter who your opponent is, because fish will never care about what you are repping so he will call flushes and reg will figure out you are repping incredibly narrow range {mostly A high flush and random FH u 3bet pre or sometimes T9 u decided to bluff turn}, so he will call you too. metagame-wise river bluff in this spot with anything is just spew.

I expressed myself very bad with the first argument. I meant the argument to be in OP's hand , it doesnt apply to every spot, it depends on range strengths.

and opponent which pots 3way needs to get 50% folds to breakeven. Since its 3way, the 2 players should defend equally, what is 25% both,thats how i got 75% fold. If this argument never existed, i would still agree with myself on folding somewhere around 75% since opponent is close to potting vs 2 people, i just cant imagine his range consists of anything else than pure value , very strong semibluffs and very few random blockers.

Goddam everytime i decide to look on forum posts, my eyes start burning.. no offense ephedrine. pot is multiway on flop, so if he pots, you SHOULD fold exactly 75% on the flop.

against unknown i am xc once and folding unimproved turns , and past this point its obvious what to do against low and high WWSF people.

I am checking my whole range here, not because of any optimal/balance/unexploitable purposes, but when u look at the each individual hand, it prefers to check due to future improved playability. As a consequence your range play is strong, but regardless, its still a side effect!

AA = Realize what do you achieve by not only betting , but all bet sizes makes your AA very unplayable in future after u make the bet (not only future streets but flop if someone raises you).
you bet pot to have a 2 street game so u can gii on turn = cool, you just isolated yourself against hands which have very crushing equity vs your AA, this is multiway.
you bet very small = this credible +EV strategy even with whole range, the biggest problem comes when you have no reads and someone raises you, even worse, small raise. If this happens, at microstakes you almost never have confident reads, so you put yourself into guess game and being in this state is i perceive -EV.
Checking is clearly best because noone will ever bluff stab here enough, that means when flop gets checked, you facing incredibly weak bluffcatching ranges with close to none slowplays. Very smart opponents on higher stakes will be checking back their whole ranges but thats never your concern here. So what this means you can literally delay cbet your whole range on turn.

trips+ = great, you not only hold a hand much much stronger than your perceived range is (AA,AKK) , in addition you block the board, hoping to get what value??? you need very little protection. your only hope with these hands is to actually get someone to bluff stab and continue stabbing the turn what doesnt happen often as i said above. its sad to hold trips.

non-SDV semi-bluffs and air : it is tempting to just bet small just because you will get many many folds so its always +EV, but as i said above, you will get even more folds on turn, essentially filtering out the trips+ from your opponent's ranges, why ever bet the flop.

If you like to be a detective , then do some investigation ;P Dont really like to give away such golden informations so easily ;P

nono, the 3 step guide was presented in a very funny way and the original poster made no money :) and it was a post within a thread, not a original post in the thread

didnt read comments, trying to focus completely on your original post :

with all respect to your play and no attempt to offend/insult you in anything u will read below: we have exchanges enough hands that i can confidently say your initial approach to playing is not very appealing to watch. I seen you 4tabling zoom and during the hands you even manage to SNAP decide, not even taking a half second to think what you do.. I am not here to judge you, i stated facts what is happening. You have to ask yourself if u are skilled to do this stuff and objectively answer.

Of course you are struggling.

"Stealing doesnt seem possible as so many chunk hands are 3bet and potted on any flop in the blinds"

Looking at this sentence, i have an impression you dont look for the "fold to button steal" stats from both blinds and that makes you say something what is not true, and IN THE FIRST PLACE , wrong thinking about the topic. Introducing the stats into your hud will make your CO and BTN strategy dynamic and not static, at least i had that impression you are thinking between the lines "so do i perma steal or not?" The correct approach to CO and BTN play is to look on the stats and steal like mad against people who are overfolding and open a tight strong range against unknowns and people who dont overfold.

contintuing to the second part of your sentence :
"3bet and potted on any flop in the blinds, which is a bad strategy but hard to combat."
This one i lol'd.. 'If it is genuinely the case that your opponent’s range will be easier to play OOP than yours is IP then you have either made a mistake pre-flop (calling with a weak hand against a strong range) or the flop hits your opponent’s range a lot harder than yours.

here is my story from which u can take anything you want : i was superheavy for math and was doing all kind of very analytic work, for hours, varying from simple calculations, to EV calculations , PokerJuice work , Odds Oracle. The results in my play were such that i was losing at hypergalactic speed. I was misplaying many many hands. That left me very marked with a ton of scars , in numbers -5bb/100 at PLO50zoom over 200K hands. very ugly.

In my deepest despair , very close to the bottom, i decided to change my approach to poker both away from tables and in play, i found a 3 step guide how to win at microstakes. that was 20. april this year. since then i never touched any calculation, i spent like 30 minutes in total on PokerJuice , the only "study" i did was just pure thinking about the hands. I grabbed a 100K sample showing me 11.4bb/100 winrate at PLO25z.

So in my case, i perceive there is a limit to what i personally can digest from what am i studying. At first i was overwhelming myself with a ton of knowledge what led to even more -EV spots, then i took it very very lightly and suddenly i jumped at EV in a remarkable fashion

hmm, why not post the graph also here even though its on 2p2 . not worth starting a new thread and this one seems good to post. vast majority of hands are plo25z :P joining the runbad gang almost 40BIs below EV ;P

Unless there is very good reason, i would say there are no such players because if they are crushing, they moved up.Take PLO50 crusher, he would move up to PLO100 where either he would continue crushing and move up to PLO200 in very short time or he is not a crusher anymore because he games are tougher for him so he doesnt count to "crusher" group. Someone correct me if my perception is wrong

No, my redline is consistent enough, i am always suffering in blue-line , meaning i cant win a goddamn hand in showdown.. Sometimes i am truly wondering if i am even cut out for omaha as i have huge problems with blue-line basically since i started with PLO..

as i said i dont think i am tired, although i was looking for this word you said : very likely there is something happening at subconscious level.

If the pot goes multiway with crazy frequency and at the same time u wont get 3bet often, i see no point in raising weak AA since you will never ever realize full equity u have preflop against so many players.If flop goes check in multiway, i dont see many opportunities to delay cbet.That leaves only intention to play for hitting a set so again i dont see point in raising . Therefore limping becomes the best.

all of my sessions i start same way, just fire up 2 tables. The problem is i am very confident what is not the cause, but have no idea what actually is the cause.

Sir, can you tell me your stars nickname? Also i support the rake myth,my database shows rake at plo25 and 50 zoom is around 11bb/100 which is ridiculously small.

I pretty much highly recommend you to have a strategy highly dependent on Tom Coldwell videos from this site and definitely stay away from any consensus recommendations from other videos you encounter.

If watched and used knowledge properly, the videos of Tom Coldwell at this site will get you out of PLO50 or below to PLO100

I would prefer to stay away from people who threaten me anyhow.

I didnt really read the comments, just want to respond to your original post :

So you swarm the community with questions and your only analysis was "i thought...xyz" and thats all from your side.. i mean you surely do have odds oracle or pokerjuice to find these things yourself? just input the ranges and see for yourself? if you dont have neither of those tools why not say something about it like "i am sorry i dont have tools to work with thats why i am asking".. if you do , you should be really ashamed because thats objectively relatively easy work to do..

I feel like i am struggling with raising IP aspect of game.. someone explain me this concept please.. in my mind,you clearly got many hands in your calling range to fill "defend frequency" and can rep ANY turn/river card. why have any raising range at all, which does damage in 2 areas : 1.) since u cant have only bluffs nor value in raising range, you have to have both, 2.) and as a consequence you will be capping yourself since u took your top range there,what means the opponent can start barreling you mindlessly.