SpankoPita22
17 points
Guys my bad. Everything that says HJ here should say UTG. The equity shift on the turn vs UTG is quite large, but vs. Hijack it's less of a jump. Regardless vs. both positions BB polarizes turn.
Dec. 22, 2021 | 10:20 a.m.
Hi guys. There are a few concepts that I'm really confused by in checkraises pots. I remember watching Pete Clarke's key concepts video "After the Flop Raise", and in it BB bets almost range for a small size on turns that hit BB a lot, while polarizing and betting big on bricks where a lot of BB bluffs miss. For the record the flop in the video was A75r and turn was either a 2 or an 8 if I can recall correctly. On the 8 BB bets merged and in the 2 BB polarizes. So all of the above I understand clearly.
However I reviewed a hand of my own recently where I though the above concept would apply but according to the solution it's the opposite, BB polarized the turn hard and bet very infrequently.
The hand:
EP vs. BB (the villain was UTG but I tested the solution with HJ ranges as well in case he was loose).
UTG opens 2bb. I flat in BB with T8s.
Flop: 9c7s6d (HJ: 53% equity. BB: 47% equity)
BB: check
UTG: bets ~70% pot
BB: raises ~pot
UTG: Calls
Turn: 8d (HJ: 45% equity, BB: 55% equity)
BB: check
UTG: bets 33% pot
BB: Raise (I probably shouldn't have)
UTG: calls
River: 8h
BB: bets 10-20% pot
UTG: shove
BB: fold
I threw this in GTO Wizard and the turn is getting barrelled by BB very infrequently and it's an overbet. I'm confused because at first glance this seems contrary to Pete's video where a turn that favors BB (and equalizes equities) gets bet small.. For the record, if I change the opener's range to HJ, the equity shift is a decent bit less pronounced
on the turn but BB still polarizes turn.
Can anybody explain how this board is different to the example in Peter's video? Why are we polarizing turn? Vs. on A758 BB bets turn merged after a flop checkraise.
As a confusing aside, vs HJ is the only position where BB block bets river.
Thanks in advance.
Dec. 22, 2021 | 8:06 a.m.
Apologies for reviving a dead thread. But regarding pio polarizing on JT7 from SB, is BB by any chance 3 betting all of their 89 combos? That could explain the nut advantage with all the overpairs SB has and the fact BB might 3 bet most of their sets. I've noticed minor changes in what hands you choose to 3bet can affect overbet frequencies and big-bet frequencies. Somone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Dec. 21, 2021 | 6:37 p.m.
Thanks for explaining :)
Dec. 19, 2021 | 4:01 p.m.
Thanks for the clear explanation :). Explains why I don't see much flop 3 bets in solutions.
Though I'm like 95% sure I remember him saying raise merged vs merged and polar vs poor in FTGU.
And in key Concepts he stated he is polarizing his raise vs a merged cbet which I found confusing but I guess it's not incorrect seeing as you continue with value and bluffs and villain continues with a merged range.
I guess I just got a little OCD about misalignment of the info presented in FTGU vs. Key Concepts, but it all makes sense. Thing is it confuses me why he considers raising middle pair in the key concepts video as a polar raise, I thought this is merged.
I guess a solver doesn't really draw a clear line between polar and merged sometimes and there could be a blend of both.
Dec. 19, 2021 | 3:54 p.m.
Thanks for the explanation, I do understand all the concepts that you wrote here. But he stated he raises polar vs. merged which confused me a bit. I guess it's not an issue though seeing as it's not #1.
Dec. 19, 2021 | 3:52 p.m.
Hi guys. First of all apologies for posting this here and not under the video I'm referring to. My subscription ended today and I didn't get around to asking the question. (I do plan to renew in the near future)
In the video referenced in my title, Peter says that he raises polar on the flop, this confused me a bit as that means we are raising polar vs a Merged range bet. In From The Ground Up he explicitly stated we react to to merged cbets with a merged raising range; and vs a polar cbet with a polarized raising range. Was this just a verbal mistake in the video? or was what he said correct and done by solvers? If it is correct then can anyone explain the logic behind it?
Thank You
Dec. 19, 2021 | 9:59 a.m.
Hi, just popped in to ask if there is still no way to search videos by title?
Nov. 13, 2021 | 9:59 a.m.
Hey man. That wasn't me who listed out those hands. Regarding ATS, I also see high ATS stats a lot. Maybe they play tighter EP and wider LP. Maybe they steal range from BU or SB. Also, thing is about this GG hud is that the way it used to work, the vpip and pfr stats used to track only the last 100 hands. And I believe maybe it stayed like this while the rest of the stats track hands played with the player.
Sept. 16, 2021 | 5:46 a.m.
Yup. And the 3 bet calls they make are even funnier
Sept. 16, 2021 | 5:42 a.m.
Yeah there is. But I might be missing some hands as they only let you download the last 3 months and I think I missed a few months. I'll probably do that today
Sept. 16, 2021 | 5:41 a.m.
Thanks for the insight guys. These are all very good thoughts that are getting me to see the topic from a different angle. I especially think calling with hands that unblock bluffs is an interesting idea worth trying.
Sept. 14, 2021 | 1:06 p.m.
That makes sense. Thanks for explaining. My thinking was to fold all the 0ev mixed fold hands since I assumed those are there to prevent being exploitable via light 3 bet. That combined with people's imperfect postflop game had me thinking we could gain EV postflop. Is this a valid though process or are we still losing to an ideal preflop strategy in that case?
Sept. 14, 2021 | 9:02 a.m.
Hi guys. I was wondering if there is any merit in overfolding to 3 bets in anonymous fast fold games and rooms where huds aren't allowed (ie: GG rush and cash)? Apart from losing some board coverage, would this theoretically maximize EV assuming the population has ideal 3 bet frequencies?
Sept. 14, 2021 | 6:11 a.m.
Thanks. I thought something was off about that hud. Thing is though. While my sample per person is small, my overall population sample is decently bigger. Meaning everytime I open the hud for different players I see pretty large 3 bet %. I'm wondering if maybe this is sampling error or if people really are going wide with the 3 bets
Aug. 31, 2021 | 10:19 a.m.
I have a question for People playing on GG about their built in HUD / tendencies of regs at these stakes. I keep seeing people with absolutely astronomical 3 bet % at NL5 and 10 but I don't know if I can trust the hud or not. More often then not if I were to repeatedly open the hud for different players and sample the 3 bet % the numbers are way too high. I don't know if there is something very off about the hud or if this is an exploitative adjustment a lot of regs are making. I realize the samples are small per player, but collectively it seems the 3b% is high for the entire population. Is this a fault with the HUD or are people in the pool really going ham with the light 3 bets? I've confirmed this with another player and he seems to be seeing the same kinds of numbers.
Aug. 30, 2021 | 8:43 a.m.
Thanks for explaining guys :)
July 20, 2021 | 4:28 p.m.
haha, me too, my favorite play lately XD. I'm waiting for the moment it deals me K5s UTG, then I will earn a fish label from someone
July 20, 2021 | 4:28 p.m.
Hi guys. I notice the NL50 ranges for GTO Wizard are significantly wider than I would have expected for UTG and MP. They were done with monker. I remember seeing other people's preflop solutions from monkersolver and they were similarly wide. This is for an environment with 5% rake and 4bb cap. I remember reading that monker had rake errors but the support team for GTO wizard explained that they used the newest version which corrected this. Yet they look similarly wide to older ranges. Do these ranges seem okay to you guys?
July 20, 2021 | 8:31 a.m.
Thanks guys. You're right in that the rake is higher for the GTO Wizard ranges and the opening ranges are oddly also wider
July 20, 2021 | 8:25 a.m.
Thanks guys, I'll check these out
July 17, 2021 | 12:24 p.m.
Oh wow, thanks, that's really good to know :)
And thanks for the viewer! Just what I was searching for
July 17, 2021 | 12:21 p.m.
I've been toying around with the GTO Wizard trial playing against the NL50 solutions and I've noticed significant differences between GTO Wizard and a solver app I use called Solver+. So far it seems GTO Wizard has preferred the more aggressive actions on the river. I'm wondering why there's such a discrepancy? Is it because the rake is higher at NL50?
I also noticed GTO wizard has no restrictions on sizings used vs other presolved libraries. Does this make it a bit less practically applicable? I would have thought they should have narrowed the solutions down to the best sizes in any given spot?
I'm just confused about which solutions to trust, while they are mostly the same EV wise the frequencies differ wildly.
As an example:
My solver says that checking the river here is the highest frequency action (but all other bet sizes are the same EV as checking). But GTO Wizard says the check is a mistake and that I need to overbet the river. Solver+ also prefers a cbet on flop whereas GTOWizard checks
July 17, 2021 | 12:05 p.m.
Hi guys,
I was wondering if somebody has (or knows where to see) the older zenith poker ranges. They have a new range viewer but unfortunately he only takes BTC which where I am is a pain in the butt to buy. Would really appreciate if if someone who has these could share them ^_^
Thank you
July 16, 2021 | 12:40 p.m.
Hi guys,
I've been looking for places where I can play against GTO solutions for free.
So far I've found learn WPT which has a few free ones every now and then, and GTO wizard.
Are there any other ways/places I can practice? I have GTO+ and realzie there is a play vs. the solves feature, does anybody know a place with a free library of solutions I can practice against?
Also this is a bit of a stretch probably, but does anyone have some method of looking up explanations for specific boards and why a solver chooses a certain play (short of asking on forums)?
July 16, 2021 | 12:32 p.m.
I always see you posting on here and being so very helpful, congrats, you really deserve it ^_^. I started off with magic too, still playing it though :p
July 16, 2021 | 12:26 p.m.
Thanks for explaining :) that's what I thought. Interestingly it's even betting non-pair hands huge, like basically most of the range
April 3, 2021 | 8:48 a.m.
Hi guys
Can somone explain to me why the solver chooses large flop bet sizes here at 70% frequency? It's betting about 95% pot
(BB 3 bet vs UTG open and call.)
From BB's pov
My first guess is nut advantage on a board where UTG has no sets or 2 pair.
I was wondering if give the choice of even bigger bet sizes, if the solver would choose to overbet?
This just seems like such a wild output.
March 30, 2021 | 1:08 p.m.
Thanks guys :)
Thanks GTO warrior, I appreciate you taking the time to clarify this. Very clearly and practically explained ^_^
Dec. 23, 2021 | 11 a.m.