SighNeverBink

If you call, how do you play vs a turn barrel 8-K

I don't think villain needs to have AA 100% there should be an implied dynamic here regarding ur sqz range because of the amt of calls, but its AA probably> 85% of the time

I don't understand why you mention 1 set combo. Are you assuming he'd CBET 2/3rds of the time with KK?

Ur losing to some amount of combos of KK and like .4 combos of KQ/AQ combined, 

hes never bluffing so nice fold (as played.)

Though I probably would bet river.

He probably means he gave a runner 10K and stuck 5 1K chips in his pocket before playing a hand (legal) it's not super relevant but you could use it to aid some assumptions.

on a lockdown board you need a pretty good reason to steal the lead usually. What was yours?

I can't stop thinking about the Q flush calldown.
There are a lot of levels running through my head.
At the first level, it looks -EV in a vacuum. Agree?
Is the optimal play is to fold turn and tell nobody?
Is he really barreling balanced, with this massive sizing?? Or his he pretending to be balanced, but he has different betsizes.(potting it with the nuts, and maybe not even with the blocker)

I guess you you justifying the calldown because you want to stay unexploitable?? How much is this worth?

There are a lot of vacuum river spots, in Phil's videos too, where I just cringe when looking at the river bet,, hero calls, we get shown the nuts. I feel like it's possible I undervalue the metagame of sort of being known as an unexploitable station and making people have it, though... and perhaps this is worth more than I think it's worth.
Also, you probably get bluffed at a more predictable frequency in 400BB pots, and at higher stakes too, if you are known to make these stubborn calls, so I'm sure that's worth a lot too. And you can work in an exploitable fold in a really key spot that is less expected.

awful call, good responses itt. I think there are merits to betting turn.

okay maybe closer than most would expect but still a call.

lot of MTT players leak really hard in these spots imo, since you are playing CEV all tourney until you get to this spot.
I only call against a wide/unpolarized/capped range and if the metagame seems really valuable, otherwise, fold really quietly against a nitty villian. Most people will expect you to call with ~88 so it tightens them up as well FWIW.

keep raising obv, this looks like bottom of inducing range so 1177/call is okay but you can just jam if you think his bluff range is really high card heavy and if you are not comfortable playing against a call.

I really hate the assumption that KcXc is valueraising, that is just not how these games (or almost any real games) play. This is a strait flush, like always, or a bluff with a blocker ~3% of the time (being extremely generous).

I dunno what it is about the nutflush blinding people from big absolute hand stength, and little relative hand strength.

I usually burn the money/ call angrily if I block either of the S/F's

"He's creative enough to cry and call IMO."
haha no, pretty easy fold.

tough spot, good question. Sorry for being nitty but, its's the 3 bet you are thinking about making, not a 4 bet. Personally I just CBET small and follow it up with a lot of bad decisions when I face aggression.