PlasticLime

I agree it is probably an over confident leak. Just saw an opportunity and took it, what sucks is it is one of those spots I have it probably %85 of the time.

You are assuming I am jamming pre with all of my Ax hands and good Q's. This is wrong, the game flow was pretty non aggressive pre. None of us were 3betting, or jamming pre. Stacks were shallow, but the levels were 1 hour, and there is plenty of play left where none of us were really jamming or folding. IMO there was still quite a bit of play, hence why I called oop vs villian thought my skill edge was huge..at the time. I am not a huge ICM guy, but the money jump did play a factor in this decision. The jump from 4th to 3rd was not huge 16.6k to 4th and 20k to 3rd. But from 3rd to 2nd was 15k (2nd paying 35k) and up top 60k. In factoring me winning this hand, basically locks me in at at least 3rd and then gives me a lot more room to start opening up my game with 3 left.

As weird as it sounds we were actually all playing fairly bad 4 handed, no one was showing a ton of aggression and my villians thought process probably had no clue what my range is. After watching the final table, and obviously I didn't know this going into the FT but he was extremely 1st level thinking. Very straight forward to get where he was.

Hands like Q9-QJ can shove this flop (don't like jamming pre flop vs this player type) for sure. We can't become a x/c slave because "villain has a higher range ceiling". 

This is why we have to either fold or jam. Should we just be folding here pre everytime? Even if we feel our edge is pretty great against this player? This may sound odd, but this is the only time I am able to really get involved with this weaker player due to having the most aggressive player on my direct left and the station on my right. When they both fold I see opportunity.

Actually I 3bet TT and JJ. However I feel like there are just tons of clubs in my range, given that he also has 0..but we don't know this of course.

Are you asking what I am repping, because I feel like I adequately rep 9cTc QJo, QTo, 4c5c, 5c6c, and could sometimes being doing this with TT and JJ if I feel I am good and do not want to face a river jam. Is this the wrong thought process? I just feel like my shove looks super strong here, and I guess much more polarizing that I thought. 

Obviously my assumption was wrong, he called. Basically all I want to know is if we have A8 here and for some reason bet the turn (which I probably never do) are we folding to a jam. My assumption (which was wrong) is that my shove looks so strong there is no way he can call. I actually asked him later what he thought I had and he said "I don't really know". 

So I know it couldn't have been a spot where he knows I know my shove looks strong therefore he can call light knowing I know he knows that. It is simply a situation where it was a good bad call. My reasoning on 99 is because it is a hand that he is betting the turn with to protect (essentially the same at A8) I just always thought he was going check an 8. This player was not the player to "induce" after watching him play and playing with him for 8 hours I believe he would have checked a queen. Here is the vid, I guess the reason I am making this post is because friendman says my play "makes no sense" I think his level of thinking must have been that I was jamming for value. So I am frustrated that my play comes off senseless, and am looking for a little solem in knowing it was not terrible. I think I am obviously turning my hand into a bluff here when I am jamming, and given the style he has played he is folding out a ton of hands.

Also the commentary in the hand, that calling the minraise is bad. I would agree it is bad when playing against a pro, but I think I am outplaying him over half the time when I don't outflop him, vs pro it may be bad and I wouldn't have called yen or dawson oop to a min raise. VS an inexperienced player I believe my call is ok here. Again just looking for whether or not my play is actually terrible in this hand or makes sense to someone? 3:57:00 that hand starts.

http://msptpoker.com/videos/media/2014-08-24_Tropicana.mp4

Our history is when we were 6 handed he check min raised me on a turn 347J and lead 100k river 9, I call he has ace high, so he is capable of bluffing, I am just saying he is playing the most straight forward of anyone. If we put our opponent on two 99's here this is still a bad shove? Opponent tank called A8, which is nearly the hand I thought he had, I knew he didn't have a queen or a flush, just one of those spots where you know. So I think terrible is a strong word, and our shove looks super strong.

What do we do with 99 if CRAI on this turn?

I don't think he should never bet a Q, I said the style he played I don't think he is betting a Q. The reason I decide to crai is because he had played so tight, but showed the ability to bluff, overall he was playing fairly weak. I guess the better question is I thought he had an 8 or even 99 or TT and would fold. So if his range is an 8 or 99 is jamming terrible?

player on my direct like has 1.8 mil, player on direct right has 1.1 mil

Since you took time out of your special day to "chime in" I will reply. 1. I am not "your man". 2. Broke eating at mom and dads is not asking them for money, nor did I say that. Please re read sir.

Obviously there are different levels to being broke. I listed the dark side of poker, and how it has affected my mind to continue to play the game. I did not list the dark side of my life. I was able to separate these two instances for the sake of the post. In doing this, you have no idea what I have done or haven't done, mostly because you do not know me; and are simple minded enough to judge someone from a post written in a scatter brained manor. The theme of the post is poker can be good or bad, it is what you make of it..not a black and white game.

 I really have 0 to prove to you personally, but for some reason your post of naivety struck me deeply. I am anything but naive, I have seen many many things because of poker. I have been robed at gun point with a friend leaving a home game in the center of the ghetto, I have had a game kicked in above a clothing shop and robbed as well. Both of these instances take some level of "street smarts" to get through and deal with. Poker took me to vegas for a month, if you don't think you gain street smarts from just being in vegas for a duration of time over 6 days then you are lost. Among many other things it has taught me, it has also taught me to take everything close minded fucks like you say to take with a grain of salt. P.S if you have sold drugs to "survive" you are just an idiot, go die.

Are we never checking the turn there with QT when we make our boat? Go for a larger river value bet, guess we are just trying to bet and get it in on the river?

I would have bet larger on the flop to set us up for a turn shove if our plan is to jam the turn, and check back the turn as played. The turn changed nothing, and typically at these limits they aren't going to fold top pair. Take the free card with equity, and hope to get there..even if a brick king comes we may be able to get him to fold.

You have to ask yourself would you have played AhQh this way? Because essentially that is what you are repping..only AQhh probably check backs the turn a lot of the time for deception. Imo jamming the turn puts our hand face up, even though we have equity we aren't folding out anything at this stage and level of the tournament.

If there is a peice of advice I could give you here it would be pot control, pot control, pot control.

Online tournaments are no longer beatable. You have to make it through a mine field of bad players winning 3:1 and then deal with good players once your stack is built if you make it. I say take up slots.

Can you elaborate on why you feel 3betting from the BB looks stronger than from the SB? 

Fair warning just finished a session, and have no blog. This is a complete ramble do not read.

I think I may have used the wrong verbiage saying my preflop play is "weak". I make preflop simple, and would rather play postflop. I completely understand ranges, balance, and position preflop. I believe as the game has moved more and more polarizing post flop my reading ability in those situations is much stronger than pre. When I say weak, I meant this is a weak spot for me here at this half hour of the tournament. I understand what their jamming ranges are/could be and that this is what we need to figure out. I am just looking for anyone who has had success with different styles during this period of the tournament. I am unsure how long stars and FTP late reg is, as I play in the US. I had never really struggled with this before because when I played it was mostly an hour late reg which had 0 effect on the dynamic.  

I understand completely what effective stacks are and have been playing for a very long time, my knowledge is that of someone who played for a living for 2 years, and quit after black friday, a student of the game for 4 years before playing for a living. Was a winning tournament player, and am very aware of ranges and so on. I understand what you are saying and the questions you raise are how I answered it to myself, and I can't be upset with a general answer for such a general question. As with anything in poker it is all so situational sometimes it is hard to just solve a certain leak. Beauty of the game I guess. I have never struggled with jam/calling ranges at this stage in the tournament, until presented with this dynamic of late reg'd players. I am pretty good with tilt control, but this is something that has begun to frustrate me more and more.

 I guess I should rephrase my question to are we raise calling all of our hands vs a late reg shot taker given they have a %18-%25 jam range? I just feel like this is a losing play.

With this being said is it the correct play to be raise calling late with KJo-A7 and less? 

I just need to discuss the worth of having a good stack with 10-15 minutes in late reg left with a ton of jammers which turns to average after a half hour of the field merging, is it better to just let them all go crazy and sit back and wait until late reg is over and get back to the tournament? or better to take more marginal risks to build a stack for the bubble (usually itm 1-1.5 hours after late reg). 

I guess an example is we open (18k) KQo utg 200/400 blinds we raise to 855, utg +2 (9k) flats MP late reg'd we have no info jams his starting stack in for 5k. (we assume the utg+2 has 44-88, AT-AJ,KQ-9Tss) Gets back to us, and we know this is a good spot for MP to stick it in with any suited Ace, pair, or random suited connectors. However we can't stand an over call and really don't want to jam into a 9k stack that may be willing to gamble with dominate hands. Easy fold imo, but utg+2 calls  w/ A9s and MP shows J9o. I see a lot of this, and a lot of times I am seeing late position raise snap call with QT+. I know this is all very situational and very hard to discuss, but I am looking for opinions on basically if people are tightening up in this area of play or just sticking to their guns and playing math/gut raise top %12 call it off to build a stack. 

Typing this all out I usually find answers to my own questions. My opinion is I need to just be tightening up and not opening marginal hands that can't stand jams. I think I am forcing myself when I feel I can pressure the opponents with smaller stacks when their mindset may be bust and rebuy, try to build a stack or rebuy. I think it may be best to wait the 20 minutes until late reg is closed then start to put pressure on the mid stacks, everything is just so jam pre or fold I think I need to tighten my opening range. Thank you keyboard.

There was a really good pod cast about media over stepping their boundaries for the main. At one point I think a camera hit smith in the back of the head. From the sounds of what I have read about what is going on out there the media is getting out of control, by media I mean the ESPN camera guys. Assuming they are all clueless, and don't really know whats going on there is still no excuse. You can't go to any professional event and just interrupt action, especially when people have paid for the entertainment in their own right. I would be interested in what the top pros oppinion was on pausing action waiting for cameras and ESPN staff wanting to know what everyone had/has.

Your thought that he can't raise this big with a draw is incorrect, and is on a lower level while the rest of your thoght process is on a higher level. IMO, online weaker players raise larger with draws when they raise draws than stronger hands. Level 1 or 2 thinkers would rather get the money with out a made hand right away, basically what I am saying is this player probably doesn't have balance in his game. Yes, he may be raising a flush draw here sometimes and flatting sometimes to mix it up, but he never has air. I think he is more likely to raise smaller with his made hands. 

Edit: I think this may be the difference between live and online. Live there are people that raise smaller to build a pot with a draw, while raising larger with their big hands to 'protect'. I believe this somewhat transfers to online while players think, well in a live game I would raise big here to protect my hand if I had a big hand, so I will raise big here with a draw to make him think I am protecting a made hand. I am not sure if that is their exact level, but I believe a level 1 or 2 thinker here is probably just trying to stick a ton of chips in here with a draw not only to show commitment, but to get marginal holdings out. Any of that make sense? 

What did he have?

 Also, stacking a 10bb guy with AA is not my intention on a tournament. 

After re-reading positions I now see merit in your flat pre, I still don't like the flat on the flop only because our hand is now so under rep'd we have to call. Which in short is why it is a bad fold. Some of this discussion I had to reread a few times, because it sounds like there is just way too much that into the hand as it was playing out I nearly leveled myself. Obviously you are thinking on a high level, but just generally speaking we can't think like this play like that and fold the hand. We leveled ourselves into folding. I still like a raise of LJ on the flop, we have to protect our hand and the pot has over 20k that we add to our stack. WHEN/IF we are just flatting we have to plan on calling unless we have a specific read on said opponent, our hand is just too under rep'd. 

That being said your poker knowledge, or at least your way of being able to reiterate your thought process is much higher than my thought process. I improved my game when I stopped leveling myself into fancy play though as well. Was this a high buy in tournament?

I lean towards 3bet pre here, only because our 3bet OTB sometimes gets less respect and is less believable given that we have a good 3bet fold stack. I would almost rather flat from the CO than the button here given that dynamic. As played I am putting LJ in on the flop with a raise to like 19.5, and in game possibly calling a jam, but I guess we should be folding? After you call flop  UTG2 raising range is JThh, AQ, 77, 88. A lot of times with this sizing I have noticed more and more online (should be noted im in america, have one site, and just started playing again a month ago) but this sizing has been flush draws that I have seen when I am jamming on them. I guess it can always be a scared set, but I am leaning towards a draw a lot of the time, however if you say he is matching his sizing with the strength of his hand I think it is 77/88 here a lot and 9hTh the other times.

We have a ton of chips still, probably just fold. Not worth gambling.

Fwiw, I am not very familiar with ICM, but the money jumps are huge and I feel this is a good spot to accumulate chips. 

I can't x/f the river after played turn. I don't think he is ever checking 99 or AA, I guess AK is possible for pot control, and always checking JJ, QQ, and possibly KK. I think the river is either a lead fold which I don't like or c/c. He is probably barreling missed broadways, and the same hand. I think we unfortunately see AK often, but are chopping a certain amount, and winning enough to make the call work. I am calling anything under 2.5 mil with this hand 5 handed. I think there are too many hands in his range that we beat, and if we lose the pot we still have a playable stack. I feel like check folding is so weak, I would almost rather bet like 1.7 mil and fold.

For some reason I hate jamming here. Mostly because our hand is face up, and I am the guy who is calling you with 55-JJ that flatted the original raise. I am against gambling early in tournaments though as well. I would like to hear why jamming is so profitable when we are usually gambling at best. I feel it allows our opponents to play their hands perfectly. 

Had about 22k like said in post, had both villians covered.