Jonisaverage

I liked the discussion and the focus on when and why we find ways to ignore our own thought processes in spite of having a good feel for the best play in a spot.

I'd normally bet full range on the flop, as I think I can put pressure on smaller pocket pairs and one heart hands. I don't think either of us has much 2x but we both have some Jx. I think I hesitated in game as I felt like AKdd was a pretty good hand to strengthen my checking range with as it can make overpairs and pick up lots of equity on broadways/diamond runouts.

I called but I wasn't confident about it and yeah it was a spew bluff with QTo. Do you think my Kh blocker to flush draws was relevant at all or was I just overcomplicating a simple decision?

I agree with this, that theoretically it might be close - I probably should have run the numbers like you did before posting this! It was one of those times where I just felt beat when the pot bet came in. Villain wasn't a reg and we'd only had a few hands together and it just screamed value by the river.

hey man, I'm still getting to grips with flop textures as they interact with mine and villains range. what's the thinking behind either checking whole range or betting small? If that to keep my range as wide as possible for the turn?

I called in the end thinking, for example, could villain take that line with J9cc? At the time I convinced myself the answer was yes, but I think it'd be getting kinda marginal to pot the turn and river without the A of clubs in the 25NL player pool.

Hmm...I had been opening it at 2.5x, but it could be a little wide, especially given rake. But Kalupso's comments are interesting. I don't think my post-flop game could handle opening 80-100% of hands form the SB, Q8o comes in at around 40% of hands for me which felt okay.

Thanks for running this man, I don't have PIO yet so I hadn't been able to do that.

Hey Spades, I'm not solid on my knowing how to choose a bet sizing either. My gut instinct when I played it was that I was going to be betting quite often to put pressure on FDs medium pocket pairs and just random over-cards. I didn't need much protection with KK including K of hearts, I would have checked AA w Ah some of the time there though. Also I have had some experience with getting spaz raised also - but then when that happened I found it a pretty tough spot to be in. It's interesting reading about the PIO sim below.

Yeah I agree that having the K of hearts was pretty unhelpful. I'm kinda embarrassed that I did call the river (which I think was a mistake) and in this case, villain was just going crazy with a zero equity hand (QTo) but I felt quite strongly that without reads, my play was pretty bad. I would have folded to a reg, but I think without seeing someone play badly before I should have folded.

I thought about that too, but I figured if I was ahead I didn't need much protection and felt that if I was behind I was never gonna fold out a better hand.

Thanks man, yeah turn felt gross and I knew what was coming on the river - for what it's worth, it's not easy to see the way the hand history works, because of my stack size (about 110BB pre) the river "overbet" was actually less than pot sized, but I'm not sure that really changes things that much...I mean obviously it's even uglier if I'm as deep as villain is and I have to fold more often.

Hey man, I'm still learning with this stuff. My thinking with the flop lead was that I had a pretty strong range advantage, i.e. he has no AA, KK or AK (unless some trappy thing) and against any of his Ax or Kx I can put pretty strong pressure on turn and/or river as well as obviously if my flush draw comes in. Interested in your expanding a bit on your line?

That's kinda where I got to also. I had no reads on villain, but I was confused with what flats pre, raises flop and checks turn? Ax of clubs which I lose to, 55 I'd expect to bet (which I lose to also), 97 96 76 of clubs, heart draws like 67h etc which will fold to a river bet...I feel like BB should raise a bit vs my 1/3 pot flop sizing as I would bet full range there I think. In spite of that, I sort of end up feeling like I have a bit of a bluff catcher.

Dig the video Phil, like most people I'm keen for more too.

@18.45 you did a pretty cool discussion of BB play vs MP open as it went flop, turn and river and I found your thought process pretty enlightening and logical. Kind of like it seemed so simple when you explained it, but I wasn't really thinking about it that way previously...thanks again

Agree, part 2 would be sweet. Cool concept at 44:15 re thinking about how your hand does equity wise "against the parts of their range that are going to take different actions against you". New for me.

Thanks man, would have written back sooner but I've been away. That's kind of how I felt on reflection - particularly this bit: "a reasonable villain can rip all his Ax hands here and freeroll you if you never have a flush when you bcb in a spot like this" - and your spade blocker comment too. Do you think it's worth having some flushes that check turn?

And in this situation, if I check back the straight OTR, am I considering a call based on sizing?

My initial thought would be that SB has as many sixes as you have. I think reads on the BB tendencies will effect this, but given the flat from the cutoff and you being UTG, SB might feel a squeeze is more unlikely for BB and he/she is getting a great price to see a cheap flop with suited aces/connectors/gappers.

I think for the reasons you've said you're under-repped on the turn, but a turn check-raise on the board pairing does look strong in spite of the flush draw.

Scary river to bluff for villain though as I think you have as many 6x hands as he does - or as you said maybe even more, so if the board is hitting you stronger but he's still betting might lend towards a tight fold.

I probs would have played it the same...maybe led flop though..then posted here wondering if I shoulda folded too haha

Agree with Tom

Yeah cool, I felt like it was tilty/non-believery. There weren't really any draws so he had a Q or better or air basically.

Yeah man this is a cool thread and your comments are interesting too. Thanks for sharing the specific hands too.

I agree with what you said about your flop check back.

As for the river I think I would probably fold too. The board looks so strong for your range - unless you 3 bet wide you're often on 2pair+ and could so often have the nuts, just seems crazy to bluff into.

The only bit I'm stuck on is wondering if you ever check a king back on the river? If you don't, then once you check can villain just stab with pairs+ at that point knowing how strong that play looks based on perceived ranges and reading that your check is basically a give up?

Yeah I wish I'd checkraised turn, but in the moment I wasn't sure he'd bet turn and I didn't want it checking back. But maybe that was pretty unlikely give the way that hand had played?