Chacarron91

I think we have to call here with this price...he could be value betting Jx or have the odd bluff

I prefer just jamming here with the Ah OTR and maybe checkign the turn with it ( block FDs and our hand isn't vulnerable as like Kx, JJ-QQ).

Vs a rec player like this who posts blinds I'm going for a x/b/b line. I like your point about your overall strategy having lots of FE on these type of flops vs their wide weak range but we're up against a low level thinker who can't put you on ranges so I think exploiting that by cbetting as a bluff or with stronger kicker/hands makes more sense (polarized cbetting) and pot controlling/letting them "catch up" with weaker hands when you have Ax, and JJ-KK seems best in my mind.

Raise pre; people who limp aren't good players so you want to isolate them heads up. Your general plan of action would be to then cbet dry boards, x/fold really bad boards (overs with FDs type thing) and to x/call boards that arn't so bad like 247r , 853r ect....

As played you should check raise the flop... You do get him to keep bluffing with FDs but he would sill call a bet there.. When you x/call the flop it opens the door for him to take a free river card (by checking back the turn) You want to take the initiative here for multiple reasons ( 1. to build the pot and get value from worse (before he improves or before a scare card falls that will stop him from paying you off Ex. FD card falls when he has any pair) 2. so that you can bet the turn. x/call the flop and randomly leading blank turns seems weird and you can't get the money in like that 3. you want to x/raise here as a bluff here sometimes too so this is an amazing hand to put into your value raising range.

I'm raising flop here and getting it in. I think they could potentially play/stack off like this with QQ,JJ, AT,KT ... It's a two tone flop and multiway so I like taking the more aggressive line here. Flop call would be closer if it was rainbow or with less people in the hand.

As played on the turn the BTN bets 5.50 of his remaining 9$? I'd just jam there if that's the case.

I like raising flip but not jamming... there both horrible so they don’t know you’ll never fold after raising flop. The Qd is a nice card to have here when considering raising flop and potentially seeing a turn.

I don’t mind a flop raise here. I can see him leading flop and turn like he did a lot of the time and when you raise flop( I doubt he does 3bet the flop with less than 2pair) you get fold equity, build pit up for when you hit and get a free river a good % of the time. Half pot donks off are usually lighter than 3/4 as well.

I think this is the best bang for your buck
https://www.gtoplus.com/

What belrio42 said but you can call the turn and jam the river. He's going to bet all 3 streets with those value hands and the board is pretty dry. He could stack off with those on the turn but you give him to opportunity to fold like AK, AQ(if he has it) and this is a way-ahead/way-behind situation.

Thanks guys!

I know from the SB an alarm always goes off in my head. I consider being OOP to everyone and the high rake. I tend to 3bet/fold most of the time vs CO and BTN opens but if there's mark in the BB or the opener plays fit or fold then i could cold call there with the right hands.

As for playing the marginal spots I'll keep that in mind. Fold the ones where I'm OOP with other action going on other tables and "experiment" with the ones IP or when "card dead".

Nice! Did you make yourself up a warm up sheet yet? I think focusing/remembering the things I forget could be simpler than going through the process every time. (during play anyways) But practicing while studying will get it ingrained in my brain.

Just little boo boos that could be removed with more thinking ahead and less rushing. Still working on my serve ;) (Good analogy since it’s the start of the “play”)

Thanks belrio42!

Very true, good tip! I've been working on my meditation and paying attention more to peoples body language/tone of voice type thing away from the table. But breaking down/watching my thought process throughout the day seems very GTO ;) Thanks!

I think a person who limps the CO here isn't the type of person to be bluffing too often. He's passive with his showdown hands and missed draws.

The type of hands that you beat that he value owns himself with here are small IMO like (Kx) because usually strong Kx or the type of hands he does that with he raises pre (player pool tendencies)We have to be good about 26% of the time and you won't find enough hands that you beat.

"tilting because you realize your tilting" ;'( lol... like when you make mistakes and they cause you to make more mistakes. Makes a lot of sense.

Jared Tendler illustrates it in the "Performance Arousal" curve.

https://www.google.com/search?q=performance+arousal+curve+jared&rlz=1C1CHBFenCA750CA750&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=IoRy7Lwdd8rbM%253A%252CeeLbyQif4H9LyM%252C&usg=AI4-kTPoHNXf-UrI8X87iWhzgwA-pAYcg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjl7rPxmofgAhXno4MKHciiCiwQ9QEwAXoECAMQBg#imgrc=_IoRy7Lwdd8rbM:

I forgot about it, so this means its probably not yet in my Unconscious Competence stage of my learning process.

Agh yes yes! thanks!

Hey guys, I'm new to GTO+ so any group I can join to see how it's done would be appreciated!

Wow man that makes a lot of sense! didn't see it like that before. that was ....Swifffft ; ) ... one thought that came to my head tho was that doesn't it make sense to only x/raise turn with 9hAh (getting their turn FDs to bet call and weak made hands to fold) and K9h,Q9h and T9h to also fold out made hands and use K9h/Q9h/T9h as a river bluff to fold out their nut/King high FDs? honestly.. I'm just getting back into the game and my heads spinning! lol

My point with the 9hX combos is that there's few that should check fold there compaired to the x/calling ones I think

One thing I'll say about the turn raise is that it does look bluffy after you just check the flop.. What do they put you on: floated 44? prob not.. only 98s and 88,99 (for value) IMO. It might not be best for our range in theory tho? I guess this is only good in practice when you know they're solid hand readers.

Hey man! good stuff! ... you made me realize that when villain (at these limits) check the turn, their range becomes capped. I don't think the average player here has a balanced x/raising turn range after donking flop at these limits. because of that, I agree on betting turn here but the only problem is that we should be raising their flop donks with a balanced range since our range isn't capped? so what strong hands do we bet for value/equity denial OTT after we just call the flop lead? Our range is now capped because we haven't raised the flop.

I don't think players are x/raising - messing around OTT (could be wrong of course) so that's why having this specific hand could be bad since we block their bluffs from the flop.

Not sure if were talking GTO here or population reads. Again my population reads could be wrong and just sticking to GTO until we find clear reads/patterns could be best here.

Pokerlogical hmm maybe but personally I'm raising the flop with sets and overpairs right? I thought about it last night and hands like AJhh KJhh QJhh make sense in my mind but it's hard to find others

belrio42 Ya I was familiar with the value/bluff ratio concept but not the simple equation. Sweet, I just started that book about 2 weeks ago! I'll take a sneak peak at the math part in regards to this ;)

Hey guys... so if we bet 1/3 pot on the turn what type of hands do we want to be doing it for pure value with? (where we can bet/call a raise on the turn) I guess we have to build a flop raising range vs flp leads or do we call here IP? I like adding a flop raising range vs a BB range.

Ya true, this forces Jx hands to check river again (usually) instead of facing a bet here in an awkward spot OTR.

belrio42 is there a poker math book or video series you would suggest for poker math?

belrio42 Agh thanks! I knew I had to be missing something because you went so in depth with it. (I learned the 34/2.6 from you too so thanks! :D)

Hey! :) That's a good point Pokerlogical I didn't think about checking to induce. Could be viable for sure here.

Personally, I would be DBing as a bluff with QTo type hands knowing I block his Jx and (yes 9x but he has less of those in his range) and give up on the river.(maybe even triple in that case so I can fold out his weak Jx,9x, Ace high FD and K high FDs)

I feel like a bet/check/bet line is more value heavy then bluff. I can't decide if having the 9h is a good or bad thing here.

I might be wrong here but... 3.66/(3.66+(3.66+4.62)) = 3.66/(3.66+8.28) = 3.66/11.94 = ~31% which is closer to like 2.1 to 1

34/2.1 ish so we would need to find 16 combos (more than first speculated)

Personally, this seems like a high variance call because it's so close so I would fold.
Was MP a complete unknown? seems like a strong line for 5NL

30% vipip from the button seems low so that could be a spot where you start stealing wider vs nits, 3bet bluffing vs the right fit or fold villains and 3betting for value with hands like AJo,99 vs people who see too many flops. Other than that , looks good man keep it up!