Berge20
7 points
Main question is what does theory suggest about situations where you get led into in 3bet pots on these kinds of middling boards?
And then if we get to the turn in this formation (not sure if we should be raising flop or not), when they lead again on a card that is so clearly advantageous to us WITH such a sizing, what in the heck is going on? Just call and bluff catch again on river vs QJs (?) or assume there are enough worse value combos + equity draws that it's worth raising turn?
Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
Hero (BTN): 120 BB
SB: 103.3 BB
BB: 120 BB
UTG: 121 BB
MP: 100.7 BB
CO: 127.3 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ac Tc
fold, fold, CO raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 4 BB
Flop : (13.5 BB, 2 players) 2c Ts 9h
CO bets 4.5 BB, Hero calls 4.5 BB
Turn : (22.5 BB, 2 players) As
CO bets 18.8 BB, Hero
April 27, 2021 | 12:32 p.m.
The other consideration is that almost all live low-stakes games will have relatively large open sizes and relatively large three bet sizes. That will reduce the SPR significantly compared to an online game playing deep.
Online (200bb): ~2.5x open to ~7.5x 3bet so you are looking at pots that are around 16 (give or take position of 3 bettor). SPR: ~11:1
Live Low stakes: (200bb): ~4x open to ~15x 3bet so you are looking at pots that are around 31bb preflop. SPR: ~6:1
The higher stakes live games can be more reasonable and are likely to fall into the middle of these ranges most times in my experience. Lots of variance on the live side of the ledger on bet sizing pre-flop though.
April 25, 2021 | 12:31 p.m.
That's a good point maco. I actually need to go back and do a bit more flop work OOP as PFR and get back to basics a bit. Thx
April 23, 2021 | 10:56 p.m.
This may be a "totally unnecessary at NL10" type of thinking or just plain a punt, and I've likely just watched too many videos lately on low frequency balancing, but is this CR in the category of possible or do I need a heart (Ace best)? Or is the ten just so bad for our range we're never going to CR here?
Was thinking I block JTs and ATs, along with AQ (not sure if he'd ever fold that to a river follow through or not).
Once he calls and this river hits, what do folks prefer as a line? Block-fold or check-decide?
No real meaningful notes on this guy other than he was a little laggy preflop over 85 hands.
Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 118.5 BB
SB: 217 BB
BB: 126.9 BB
Hero (UTG): 339.1 BB
MP: 182.5 BB
CO: 114.5 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Jd As
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, CO calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold
Flop : (6.5 BB, 2 players) Tc 6h Qd
Hero bets 2.6 BB, CO calls 2.6 BB
Turn : (11.7 BB, 2 players) Th
Hero checks, CO bets 7.3 BB, Hero raises to 23.4 BB, CO calls 16.1 BB
River : (58.5 BB, 2 players) Kh
Hero....
April 23, 2021 | 8:57 p.m.
This felt ugly all around, particularly with no real reads on either player and being 170bbs (25/15 over 50 hands) and 255bbs (total unknown) deep.
Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 66.6 BB
SB: 109.2 BB
BB: 144.4 BB
Hero (UTG): 255.6 BB
MP: 169 BB
CO: 334.8 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9s 9d
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, MP calls 2.5 BB, CO calls 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold
Flop : (9 BB, 3 players) 8s 9c Jc
Hero checks, MP bets 8.6 BB, CO calls 8.6 BB, Hero ???
**I typically will be checking range here OOP 3-way. Is that what theory would say, but micro-practice might be different here? Obviously if we do bet, it would be rarely, with a hand like this and some combo draws + straights, and very big.
Once it goes pot-call, I got a little confused given how deep we all are in this spot and the variety of ugly turn cards for our exact hand here. Thoughts? And if we raise, what are the sizing preferences given stack depth of the two players behind us?**
April 22, 2021 | 10:11 p.m.
I think you have to CR turn AI and live with it against this insane of a player when he's got a better hand. Doesn't seem like he ever likes to fold, so I'm ok with that. Guess it could be an overplay, but this seems like a rare spot (if not we are all going to get rich soon) that I wouldn't sweat too much either way.
April 22, 2021 | 8:15 p.m.
Happy to play sounding board or try something more structured as well, although for as often as I seem to ship you my stack Ivash, you may not want to :)
April 21, 2021 | 6:23 p.m.
Thanks all; just need to tighten up pre with this hand or very similar ones it looks like. Appreciate the perspective.
April 20, 2021 | 2:52 p.m.
Thanks for the thoughts. Need to do more work on deep stacks and what frequency to 4-bet this IP.
April 20, 2021 | 2:51 p.m.
Make sure and hide the results also (as they are not relevant and skew discussion potentially)
First, one should normally fold this combination in the SB to a CO open.
Second, it is generally speaking, it's hard to construct a leading range on board textures like this that generally favor the pre-flop raiser. That person will very likely have all of the best hands on this flop: QQ, TT, 99, KJs, KJo, QTs, QTo, T9s, and some T9o (plus AA, KK, AQs, AQo) in full combos whereas you will very often be 3-betting many of those pre-flop giving him a nut edge.
Your hand range will certainly include pair + draw combos, so usually you will be check-calling here quite a lot on this exact flop to try and realize your equity.
April 19, 2021 | 9:11 p.m.
This may be a daft question, and perhaps too many variables involved, but curious what your takeaways would be if he showed up with:
1) AxQc
2) KcKd
3) JcJd
4) KcQh
I've got a lot of work to do on my base game as it is, but one area that I want to not forget to work on is this kind of note-taking (in a manner that is actually useful).
April 19, 2021 | 3:38 p.m.
I'm not sure I like some of my decisions in this hand in hindsight, so posting for some feedback. Villain appears to be an aggressive regular with potential maniac streak in him, running 18/15/20(!) preflop over 250 hands. He previously 3b me w 65s BB v SB (and called 4bet, then raised J63ds flop cbet w no FD--and called shove). While that's clearly a different construction, it shows how aggressive he is.
Note we are 210bbs deep.
Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 100 BB
SB: 223.7 BB
BB: 385 BB
Hero (UTG): 209.3 BB
MP: 91.3 BB
CO: 231.1 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Th Kh
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, CO raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 6.5 BB
I'm struggling with defending to enough 3bets, so have been working in more calls. Perhaps this is just too weak and should be a 4bet or fold, but unsure given stack depth. Open to thoughts.
Flop : (19.5 BB, 2 players) 8h 7h Qc
Hero checks, CO bets 9.7 BB, Hero calls 9.7 BB
Here I choose to take a passive line to ensure that I realize my equity rather than CR, although I could very easily take the more aggressive line. Probably would prefer the nut flush draw to CR.
Turn : (38.9 BB, 2 players) Ks
Hero checks, CO bets 42.7 BB, Hero calls 42.7 BB
Now we pick up some SD value and would expect an aggressive villain to bet strong on this card with quite a bit of his range. Between that and our likely equity we should still be able to call this no problem right?
River : (124.3 BB, 2 players) 5h
Hero checks (?)
We bink our flush, but am thinking it's very hard to construct a sensible donking range so we check with intention of check raising vs basically any size.
April 19, 2021 | 3:02 p.m.
No significant meaningful notes on the opponent relative to this spot, but appears to be a "regular" and running 19/18/8 (VPIP/PFR/3B) in terms of preflop action over 400 hands. Probably need to do a better job of keeping tabs on other aspects of players after this many hands.
Note that we are 266 BBs deep to start the hand, so I elected to just flat the 3B in position, although could see an argument for 4 betting. Not sure if folks feel strongly on that this deep or not.
Flop and turn are surely easy calls, and the river seems to be a spot where I struggle to find all that many bluffs for him but feel like I'm too high up in my range in this Call, call, call line. I'll have some flushes obviously and maybe A5s but otherwise think AK is about as good as I'm likely to have.
Sorry for format. Still need to figure out how to better use PT4 to convert here on these forums.
Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
BTN: 236.1 BB
SB: 173.9 BB
BB: 424.6 BB
Hero (UTG): 266.4 BB
MP: 169.1 BB
CO: 240.8 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ks As
Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB raises to 10 BB, Hero calls 7.5 BB
Flop : (20.5 BB, 2 players) Ac 4d 6c
BB bets 6.7 BB, Hero calls 6.7 BB
Turn : (33.9 BB, 2 players) Js
BB bets 25.4 BB, Hero calls 25.4 BB
River : (84.7 BB, 2 players) 5c
BB bets 52 BB, Hero...
April 19, 2021 | 1:02 p.m.
(Usual disclaimer that I'm just coming back and this is more for thought than definitive)
Seems like an ok flop to mix in a check back here against a player who plays aggressively with a variety of draws, although I'd prefer Aces. Yes, we probably hold the nut advantage in a BvB scenario, but his calling range OOP is probably likely to contain a lot of cards that connect with this type of board as well so we may not have much of an equity edge anymore, although would lean on those who know more to say for sure.
Also, I suspect there is some distinction between KK (or AA) with and without a heart here, but I've run myself in a little bit in circles on what that ultimately means. My knee jerk reaction is that I thought that if I were checking it would want to have the Kh to help us better defend leads on heart turns.
April 18, 2021 | 4:05 p.m.
Ugh, sad. Need some universal regulated poker in the US sooner than later.
April 14, 2021 | 11:25 a.m.
Anyone happen to know why the NL25 (.10/.25) zoom equivalent games don't run on ACR much? It's a clear gap (.05/.10 and .25/.50 zoom games run all the time)? Some type of rake cliff that regs realize?
April 13, 2021 | 11:24 p.m.
My initial thought is that we should also consider the impact on future streets of the 1/3 vs multi-size strat. I would think that one of the benefits of the 1/3 bet is to keep their range so wide that we can punish it very hard with favorable turn cards with large bets. But perhaps the pool has a more inelastic continuing range than solvers would recommend.
Would certainly think you have to mix strengths if you are mixing sizes though.
I'm still getting back into this and am very raw at the new school of play, so take that more as a question/thought experiment than anything.
April 13, 2021 | 1:51 p.m.
Pure question: Could we also bet the turn here for something like 20 percent with range?
April 12, 2021 | 3:31 p.m.
Thanks for the detailed reply Hawks. Appreciated.
April 12, 2021 | 3:25 p.m.
Slowly getting back in the saddle after a ten year layoff, so hope this isn't too basic. (Narrator: It's probably basic)
1) Any way to get PT4 HHs converted? Sorry for raw feed.
2) How bad is my logic here?
Opponent only had a handful of hands on opponent, so no real reads. Appeared "normal-ish" pre-flop in that sub ten hand sample.
Hand #771893033 - Holdem(No Limit) - $0.05/$0.10 - 2021/04/10 14:59:23 UTC
Blitz Poker 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: locogoa ($15.63)
Seat 2: 0ud0ntn0 ($15.06)
Seat 3: nood1g ($10.00)
Seat 4: MountainMan20 ($12.84)
Seat 5: idiotbluffing ($9.88)
Seat 6: DisIsMyTime ($12.43)
0ud0ntn0 posts the small blind $0.05
nood1g posts the big blind $0.10
* HOLE CARDS *
Dealt to MountainMan20 [3c Ac]
MountainMan20 raises $0.25 to $0.25
idiotbluffing folds
DisIsMyTime calls $0.25
locogoa folds
0ud0ntn0 folds
nood1g folds
* FLOP * [5c 7h 4d]
Main pot $0.62 | Rake $0.03
MountainMan20 checks
DisIsMyTime bets $0.21
MountainMan20 calls $0.21
Not a board I can really cbet ever, so decision point after he cbets 1/3rd. I think we have too much SD value to CR our double gutter + BD FD + over card here, but maybe this is wrong. Plus I don't think I have too many hands that want to CR for value (77 and some smaller 55 frequency I guess), but again perhaps I need to be doing that with some overpair combos + draws.
* TURN * [5c 7h 4d] [Ad]
Main pot $1.02 | Rake $0.05
MountainMan20 checks
DisIsMyTime bets $0.68
MountainMan20 calls $0.68
Hit the overcard, so pretty easy check-call.
* RIVER * [5c 7h 4d Ad] [7d]
Main pot $2.31 | Rake $0.12
MountainMan20 checks
DisIsMyTime bets $1.86
MountainMan20 calls (???)
Expect him to check behind a lot of SD driven hands here, so a little concerned he bets this particular card after I call the turn. Still, do we think there are enough bluffs here from a GTO perspective (even if the pool underbluffs)? Or do these have enough SD value at this point that we are just no good here enough? Thinking like 66, 65s, 54s, 98s for bluffs, plus some of A5s, A4s that may want to try for value still that we chop with?
April 10, 2021 | 3:37 p.m.
Totally agree, just always curious what folks choose to utilize. Thx
March 28, 2021 | 9:41 p.m.
Curious what HUD stats you choose to utilize in this environment.
Thanks!
March 28, 2021 | 3:47 p.m.
Also behind here by quite a bit, but open to getting some folks to bounce stuff off of if people are interested. Pre-Black Friday mid-stakes FR type of background, so basically rebuilding the knowledge bank from scratch/wiping out very old bad habits.
March 17, 2021 | 11:46 a.m.
Long-time cash player and starting to play more MTTs, so wondering how folks track results. Best software out there that easily does it or just grind them into a spreadsheet....
And what info do you prefer to keep beyond buy-in and results?
This is a good question and one which I need to put some thought in as a player in these similar pools. Sorry that's not an answer, but good idea for study.
April 28, 2021 | 9 p.m.