BM.dbleal

From your position it seems to be an easy fold.

The double x/r is magnificent.

I really don't like ur 3x 3bet when that deep... Flatting seems better... you hide your hand strength and avoid tough decisions like this one (face a check-raise all in a board that isn't that bad for you).

Now why are you betting after his check? The board seems to favors you (cards under 10) but is connected (possibility of straight draws and even the flush in spade), maybe the check behind would be better here (once you already inflate the pot with the 3bet pre-flop).

Seeing the turn and reevaluating (accordingly the new card and villains action) would be much better than betting/fold your overpair.

Regards,

Sorry for the bible...

Resuming:

• Against a passive limper who plays fit or fold: abuse him... make his life a hell... his adjustment won't threat you, he will possibly gave all his chips to you... isolates him whenever you can and make cbets 100% overtime... if he calls on the flop and you have completely missed, just turn it off... otherwise, keep firing because he will call you with a pair all streets down

  • Against a passive limper/calling station: Again, make strong raises pf but cbet high your strong values and strong draws, cbet tinny your values and draws and check behind your bluffs... i wouldn't take the pure bluff path here.

I played against an younger guy last saturday in a 40k grt live, that played the same way. I was owning my table, have more than 100 bb's when we were only 35 left when he came into my table.

I saw he played two hands limping and taking down the pot (without any showdown) by the river taking the lead.

So he limps again and i raised to 5x in the cutoff with 9c7c; all the other guys folded and this guys called. The flop was A high x x with one card of clubs. He checked and i bet more than half pot; he called. the turn was x of clubs, and he checked again... as he was playing too many hands, the turn is a perfect card to semibluff and i fired again, more than a half pot... he tanked and folds.

few hands later (he just continuous limping and collecting some dead money when people just turn off the hand as he shows resistance and frequently bets the river... and he was limping all the positions and too many hands) i had KQo and he limps, everyone folds to me and i make all 5x he called.

the flop was K high, he checked and i fired more than half pot, he snap... real fast... the turn was a blank and again, he checks i fired and he snaps... the river was also a blank and he checks... i have to say that even with a decent hand i was not comfortable with the situation (because he is limping/calling pf almost more than the average range of the positions he's playing). As he folded to my second barrel before, i simply decided to check behind and he shows AKo, saying "no third barrel?". Although, after this showdown he change gears and collect even more chips from people who misread him. He started to open raises and started to overshove huge value preflop... we both make the FT. I finish in 7 and he finished in 5 - i've never played against him before, but take many mental notes about his playing style -.

Sorry for the long response, but in overall i like to punish real hard passive limpers, but if you think (and in this case you have motive to that, because you saw him limp calling QQ) that he's limping his entire range, and he's not someone who let it go when he misses the flop, then you should play really straightforward and strong valuebet when you make a strong hand and simply follow him or bet smaller when you missed the flop but have something like, overcards... i would definitely bet high when semibluffing strong draws and bet smaller my weaker draws.

In your example firing the second barrel is ok, you only have to pay attention to your stack/pot ratio, to didn't commit yourself with overcards and having a bad time to a tough decision ahead... when you have any kind of doubt, in difficult scenarios, i recommend to think about your tournament life, then take a safe rout and check behind, see the river and decide what to do... checking behind allows you to try a hero call (with A high) on the river if he donkey tinny... although, betting the turn and facing a shove or a call and then a lead on the river will make your decision even more difficult.

Regards,

The point is, you are sooooo deep in such a good tournament, that there's no point in rush things right now with AKo... if you don't have any specific read on this guy (who 3 bets), you might just let it go.

You don't win a tournament in only one hand... not so early... take a breath and think what you want to achieve... and than go.

Although i agree that's not an easy fold... so annoying to lay down AK pf, but sometimes it's necessary. I must say that i don't like a flat call here (talking about the 3bet of CO), because MP will shove 99% of time and we'll have the same spot, i prefer to shove or to fold AK (but not so deep!), as we are so deep in a tournament with good structure, i would probably fold.

Regards,

there's a new skype group...
it has to be in Discord?

For sure, i understand that, but we have a huge problem here if we hit something not so strong (like a second pair) and we just can't let it go if the villain (UTG oppener + 3 bet caller) shows any kind of strengh.

That's only why i'm telling that, in these scenarios, if our hero has some difficult by evaluating strength hand power against the villains range (considering the board), he must just make it more simple;

Although i must admit that squeezing (light and for value) can be really better in this kind of scenario because of the strength that we represents, witch allow us to collect the pot right away or represent other strong holds (that are in our range), when villain's doesn't show any kind of strength (pos flop).

Regards!

Think that the bold part fits in the first topic that i mention. That kind of study is really interesting for everyone but specially for those who wants to succeed in tournaments.

If you are a nitty you might find some trouble playing live when the regulars identifies you and start to exploit based on your style. But anyway, i really think that a hard work on pre-flop tournament oriented will really improve your game.

Regards,

Just added you Pedro.

Don't like to do it bigger here... guess that 4x in this situation it's just fine. If his plan is to c/c in a flop like that, the size is really ok; doing bigger sizes, in a flop like that, he will never fold when hit second pair (if he didn't in a smaller pot, he simply can't in a bigger one).

To be clear, if our hero knows that he's doing light, then ok, go and squeeze, do it bigger (because he knows that, when he's called, he must just turn it off if villains shows any kind of strengh); when it's not clear for our hero if he's doing for value or if he's light, the size is just perfect; should keep him away of trouble (but it wasn't what happen in our example).

He must keep it simple.

Regards,

I tend not to overestimate jacks. With your stack size i would play like Pedro says...

Guess you have 3 huge points to work:

• Study/review/re-learn pre flop concepts
• Keep gamblers ruin in mind

• At least understand the ICM concept (for late stages)

• The first concept it may seem a noOb one but not really; cash game players are used to play so deep that usually allow themselves to have a wider open range, as a wider call 3 bet ranges and so on... they usually believe that their edge pos flop garante a decent profit over time; so if you play cash games for so long, for sure you have some habits that can ruin your tournament life, putting you in some spots that you should avoid in a tournament; so i can say that you must need a reeducation about opening ranges, 3bet ranges, calling ranges ip/oop, stack sizes; a huge reeducation about how you approach pre flop situations - this is a must for everyone that wants to succeed in poker tournaments -. You should find good free material about it on youtube or even in some foruns. But i really recommend that you look for a good instructor or friend who plays a bunch of tournaments to study more in depth

• We can mix those concepts above with gamblers ruin (cannot recover from zero); cash game players tend to force too much in the concept of the long run, are oriented by the results in the long term; this is not bad if we think that we can always reload and go again against that fish, again and again... but in tournaments you should kept in mind that, in some situations you just want to avoid a +chip ev play because it may cost your tournament life... although, you will find yourself, sometimes doing some -chip ev plays because in that specific situation it can be so healthy for your tournament life that you just have to do it! Is counterintuitive but yes, we can analyse each situation independently; this is another thing that must bring huge modifications in your cash game approach

• ICM is fundamental in late stages... and will explain some situations that i mention above, in gamblers ruin dilema; know when to move and when don't even to look your cards is a huge must for those who wants to be profitable tournament players - even more in those live turbo tournaments (30 min blind or 25 min blind tournaments)

Hope that can help you

Regards,

I would always defend sc in this situation... but when you see sb leading and the utg calling, without the backdoor i generally, playing turbo sng's wouldn't be creative here; simply fold and pray to one of those two go broke.

We can discuss this situation in an mtt or other kind of tournaments, but with this kind of action, without the backdoor, keep it simple. If you have the backdoor, you shouldn't (but you can start to be more creative) change to much the approach but you have more room to think about other moves.

WP.

First of all, AJo in bb it's not only a marginal holding against utg opening range than, it's not the best choice to 3bet light (because against his range you cannot think that you are 3betting here as value, right?); ok, so the history here is, we 3bet light with a hand that we don't want to do it against the utg range (the size is fine for me, by the way... 4x against the inicial raise is really ok... if he folds, awesome, if he calls we should reevaluate immediately, and not only in the turn) and he calls, let's take a look:

• 3 betting light and being called we are now, playing oop, with a marginal holding, by a pot that represents ~ 70% of our remaining stack

  We can't assume that our 3bet light put us in a good situation...

• We hit the second pair in this inflated board, we checked (witch is the best option, by the way) and the villain fires ~ 31% of the pot

  Ok, so now, the villain, who already has a stronger range than ours (because he is opening and calling a 3bet from UTG, have you ever considered his range here??) is firing something like 22% of our remaining stack and we have a real difficult spot with our 36% equity (if we exclude all AKs/o and AQs/o combos of his range - what seems to be an insanity for me) because we play the hand real badly against the CL of the table.

  If we call, we'll be playing for a 7.775 pot against someone who covers us, and remaining with less than 6k in our stack... and seeing the K double in the turn i guess that would let you more confident to break with the second pair here...

  Seems that the only way to escape of going broke with your hand in this situation is flat calling pre-flop or turning off the hand without hit something very strong (witch is not the case).

  I would polarize my 3bet range here... 3beting real strong and garbage hands and flatting/folding the rest. This should kept you away from going broke in this kind of situation... specially against the CL of the table.

Regards,

Ok, those types of SNGs are well known for the ICM presence since from the beginning. That's why some people say that play tight is right. I usually play 18man sngs on PS; i am a winner at 7.50 usd. I usually take advantage by knowing the singularity of any kind of change in the blinds in my game plan (comparing to my stack size).

6 man left is almost bubble time in 18 man sng's (4 players itm), to focus on your example (shoving 66 with 6 man left, 17 bb); the point is, you must know what to do in every position that you will open; in UTG, i can open/call or open/fold 66 depending on the villain status in my HUD and also his stack... if someone shoves in my head, i must pray to a coin flip in the best scenario, and with a healthy stack (over than 10bb) i can manage to win without that kind of coinflip.

The stack size have a huge impact here... because if utg+1 and cutoff were short, than i am the cutoff... so my perceived range should be wider than the UTG; if i know that the villains in button & blinds are aware of this concept, i would probably open/call easily with 66... but again, i can find an excuse to fold, if i really believe that i have a good edge over the field.

So yes, i would balance that kind of play untill 10 bb's, play push/fold (and i don't care what kind of chart do you memorize) will increase your variance over time; so, sometimes you can push, sometimes you will open/fold, other times you will open/call, based on how you fell the game... your position, stack size, and opponents perceived status. Don't simplify just to push/fold.

Even in late positions, sometimes, considering the villain profile (if he is over agressive, for example), it's more profitable to open/call with 66 than just push... you are giving to him the chance to shove his Ax, brodaway x and other weaker holdings into your 66, some of these holdings he will just fold when you push.

So you should know what kind of plays you have room to maneuver accordingly your stack size. In 18 man turbo sng's that kind of knowledge separate good players of top class ones.

Kind regards,

What stakes are u playin?
What kind of sng? How many players?

Another important point; generally you want to be involved in softer situations to a hero call with a bluff catcher, risk 93% of your stack in a bluff catcher is capitalize the effects of variance in your sample.

If in the same hand the action was:

• Flop -> hero bet, villain call
• Turn -> check, check

• River -> hero check, villain bets something like 2.200 chips

  Ok, now you may decide to use or not your bluff catcher... makes more sense... the numbers fit in your stack and your tournament life won't be affected by it. And what would be the borderline to make this call? You must balance it to won't be easily exploited, but i wouldn't take too much risk in those marginal situations, except if i have a hard level history against the villain and had some extra read that he might be spewing. Otherwise i wouldn't call something like more than 40% ~ 45% of the pot in this situation.

Regards!

My approach to this hand would be the same of squeezing when i'm playing a polarized range with the bottom of it; let's say, i am in hijack with 9s3s and squeezed a pf action that came into me and was called by the initial raiser; what i am looking for is basically two things:

• To flop at least two pairs and try to get a huge pot
• Try to take the pot right away if the sentence bellow doesn't happen

The thing is, even if i hit the 9, in a board like 9d 8c 2h, i am turning off the hand if my opponent show any kind of resistance and i will be glad if i went to a cheap showdown with my weak top pair; although if villain starts to being aggressive after my check, there's no reason to invest more chips with such a speculative hand, even if he's bluffing there will be better spots to fight for. Of course, i will try to balance it, making the second barrel sometimes but most of it, if my hand didn't improve on the turn, let's say that the board was 9d 8c 2s, i bet villain calls and the turn brings any spade, then i would almost always give the second barrel as a semi-bluff... hopping to find one of my 14 outs on the river.

It's exactly the same situation in this blind war... until the turn you had only invested 15% of your stack to try to get almost 20% of it; it's ok for a blind war... but when you checked turn and villain bets almost 70% of the pot (it's a huge bet), how good your K can be? Deciding to call here, against someone who have almost the same stack that you have it's a real tough decision (at least, it should be), because you have to think about two things:

• Your tournament life

• What will you do if he goes all in on the river (and in this situation, the villain will do that over than 90% of time, because his larger bet on the turn just creates the perfect situation for the river all in... it will not be an overbet and you will had invested almost 40% of your stack in this pot!!!! What you fold on the river that haven't fold yet (besides the flushdraw)?

  The best it's just fold for his huge bet on the turn... because it's really evident that what he's trying to do is to create a situation to go all in on the river... and maybe river can kill the action when it brings an A, J, 9 or club... but again, you don't have position, you are playing against someone who really hurts you and is telling to you that hit something huge... why continue investing with such speculative hand???

Regards!

Just sent my skype contact for you man.

Regards,

Pedro, i am interested but i speak portuguese too...
Do you have any space in one of those Portuguese groups that u mention? If not, i am interested in study with you... may you add me/contact me through zap? My contact

Private classes works for me 2...

Regards,

Wow... finally an awesome post to answer!
Well, i don't know how long have you been playing poker... i had this kind of thought too; and i read Gigabet talking about what was called as "The Gigabet Dilemma"; i won't be long here... i hope those lectures can be delightful to your soul as it was to mine.

This is the best topic i ever read about the problem that you bring here:

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2610396&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

then you can read plus:

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4423239&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4524424&an=0&page=0

Regards and keep thinking about the game!

Can't wait to see it man. I follow your step a long time ago... since you started to make home videos about nash equilibrium. It's really nice to see how you grew over time.

Just let me know when you upload it.

Regards,

I understand your point... just saying that is more useful for you to try to make good notes - no matter the game you are playing -. Information is power.. the higher the sample and the most information you have of an player, you will be able to take best decisions against him.

Regards,

I see... so u want to risk 56% of your stack to collect 6% (when he folds)... anyway, just take care, because fishes tend to overcall too.

Just take care, because as you said that you have no data at all about any villains, seems really arrogant to assume that everyone is a fish... actually this is kinda like fishy tought; normaly just classify everyone as an average player and make some notes and adjust this classification later... this should save you some chips.

Regards,

Why would you want to push? You call because your set value, right? Just make it simple... we are talking about 40bb effective; i guess i would probably fold to the second barrel or make a tinny raise at the flop and analyse how villain respond to that, if he make the call or re-raises me it's just an easy fold.

If you don't have any notes that says the villain is a hyperagressive player, u were really exploited in this hand... why keep paying him untill the river? Does he would spew his stack in 3 barrels? Why? And if the fourth heart comes? It would be good for you? Or an 8? What would you do?

Regards

that kind of classification it's complicated too... i don't think that a fish would trap AA in here... really don't like of this 88 shove. And i would change the fishy note to tricky fish. lol. Come on guys...

Against the second stack, i would opt (almost always) to a 3bet (like 3x)/fold rather than a push. When pushing in this situation we have:

• Risking 60% of our stack to win 9% of it
• Being ahead only 53% in chips than the third player (when we lose)
• Being exposed to a enormous mental pressure (when we lose)

But after all, why risking 60% of our stack when only 17% of it would do the same job (if we want to win the hand right away - we are forcing the BTN to put more 20% of his remaining stack in the middle); and through ICM thought, you avoid that the shorter stack wins too much in this giant battle... you can be sure that everything that he wants is that you enter in this battle for all of your chips. He wins really much everytime that all the chips goes in.

Regards

Its not so obvious this overshove and it shouldnt be the call as well... untill the end of the hand you were the 5º in chips with a stack of 30bbs.

• It's a hyper, a turbo or a regular tourney?

• Besides the wide range (that you were probably assuming that CO had), do you have any particular number that shows that he was stolen too much from that position?

  You are gambling by US 690.00 here... besides, you are risking all your stack to win ~ 15% of it. Against a 24/16; Doesn't sound so good to me, specially in a FT when you have 20% more chips than the average of those whom has less chips than you and you have other higher stacks who are losing more their ranges, like the 36/26 and the 35/17.

  I know that many regs would advocate to shove in this spot, but i can only see that what you were doing is increasing your variance doing so (in this specific spot); and don't forget that even if against the CO range your overshove would be ok (mathematically speaking), you should balance this to keep them guessing and prefer to do it in a spot that would give you more chips than 15% of your stack... a open by the 36/26 and a flat by the 35/17, for example.

So, although it would be possible to justify your overshove (against the CO range), don't seems to be a very smart play in this particular scenario. I would make a standard call or even a small 3bet (if i had the info that he usually folds to 3bets then make a cbet and turn off the hand if i find any kind of resistance by him).

Regards,

I like the ideia of a live session and after it analysing its results with tracker and discussing it.

Sounds perfect. If you stress those points that i mention in this kind of analysis, it would be awesome. Just tell me when u plan to do it.

Regards,