I was very excited for the launch of RIO, but am really put off by this update. Hopefully, the software and rake/rakeback updates do not disappoint as much as this post.
I figured I would explain why this post has changed my mind though, as Phil seems to appreciate constructive discussion.
On a general, not that important note (not really ecosystem related), I personally think the avatars, particularly the dynamic expressions, look terrible. Obviously this will vary a lot between players but I really prefer the simple layout on stars where it is just an oval with your username. I am playing online, not live. I like playing online. I don't need, or want, a picture of a person sitting at a table. To me, it just makes the table view more distracting. I am guessing there will be no option to have this as my layout and obviously I would be at a disadvantage if it was available because I would not have access to the dynamic avatars.
Also regarding the avatars, I tend to agree with what has been stated already in this thread - why are we showing bad players that they are playing bad? I lean towards these avatars being a negative feedback mechanism to rec players but this is all speculation so I won't focus too much on this (as is all the talk about whether recs losing their role faster will make them stay longer. No one posting on this forum is currently a rec player and no one has data to back up these claims so its all just baseless speculation. I can say that before I took poker seriously and was a classic low stakes whale who played sporadically for fun, me reloading was not affected by how quickly i busted. But I am only one case of thousands).
If the dynamic avatars are only taking into account the most recent hands then are they even relevant? Even nits can be 35/24 over a small sample size and these avatars may just cause us to use incorrect information and play worse vs our opponents.
I don't understand everyone's focus on how HUDs relate to Rec players. It is trivial to identify a fish after a few hands because they make so many obvious mistakes. A HUD will not drastically affect how easy it will be to take a fish's money. HUDs are most useful for battling regs you have a couple thousand hands with and that resource being taken away is extremely disappointing. Why are so many people taking about "pure" poker. If you really want to play a game where you can't use statistics to make decisions go play live at a different table every night and pretend because you saw a guy play a few hands a certain way you now have a read on him and can exploit him. The reality is most stats aren't useful until you have a massive sample size, which you will only get playing online. Online poker always has, and should, be different than live poker. I thought RIO was going to embrace this. Phil originally posted about starting a poker site whose goal was to ensure that the dream of being a professional was still alive and I don't see how anon tables factor into that dream at all.
Two questions for Phil Galfond regarding the hand histories being given with all hole cards shown within 24hrs :
Will it be to too easy to create a winning bot? With enough hands from multiple bots you will know or have a very accurate idea of the population's frequencies in every scenario and using solvers, whose only limitation is inputting accurate ranges, create a very profitable bot. It may make mistakes versus specific players but would consistently crush the pool as a whole. I am not sure how feasible this is, maybe it is not a concern.
At the non-anonymous high stakes will the hand histories be given 24hrs later as well? For small player pools or non-anonymous pools, revealing all hole cards for every hand seems like a massive net negative for all players and I can't see anyone willingly playing in such an environment.
My last concern (besides the obvious, there will just be a more expensive black market HUD available complaint) is that it is 2018. The poker boom has passed. Maybe we will have another, smaller one if poker is legalized in the USA but what kind of marketing campaign are you planning on running to attract newer players to your site? Pokerstars has the name recognition, amazing software, huge guarantees, an intuitive interface.
As much as I hate the rake and rakeback changes on stars and the direction they seem to be going as a whole, I find it hard to believe that you will be able to rival the environment and product they offer, especially with these decisions (launching without tournaments??) but I wish you the best.
I was very excited for the launch of RIO, but am really put off by this update. Hopefully, the software and rake/rakeback updates do not disappoint as much as this post.
I figured I would explain why this post has changed my mind though, as Phil seems to appreciate constructive discussion.
On a general, not that important note (not really ecosystem related), I personally think the avatars, particularly the dynamic expressions, look terrible. Obviously this will vary a lot between players but I really prefer the simple layout on stars where it is just an oval with your username. I am playing online, not live. I like playing online. I don't need, or want, a picture of a person sitting at a table. To me, it just makes the table view more distracting. I am guessing there will be no option to have this as my layout and obviously I would be at a disadvantage if it was available because I would not have access to the dynamic avatars.
Also regarding the avatars, I tend to agree with what has been stated already in this thread - why are we showing bad players that they are playing bad? I lean towards these avatars being a negative feedback mechanism to rec players but this is all speculation so I won't focus too much on this (as is all the talk about whether recs losing their role faster will make them stay longer. No one posting on this forum is currently a rec player and no one has data to back up these claims so its all just baseless speculation. I can say that before I took poker seriously and was a classic low stakes whale who played sporadically for fun, me reloading was not affected by how quickly i busted. But I am only one case of thousands).
If the dynamic avatars are only taking into account the most recent hands then are they even relevant? Even nits can be 35/24 over a small sample size and these avatars may just cause us to use incorrect information and play worse vs our opponents.
I don't understand everyone's focus on how HUDs relate to Rec players. It is trivial to identify a fish after a few hands because they make so many obvious mistakes. A HUD will not drastically affect how easy it will be to take a fish's money. HUDs are most useful for battling regs you have a couple thousand hands with and that resource being taken away is extremely disappointing. Why are so many people taking about "pure" poker. If you really want to play a game where you can't use statistics to make decisions go play live at a different table every night and pretend because you saw a guy play a few hands a certain way you now have a read on him and can exploit him. The reality is most stats aren't useful until you have a massive sample size, which you will only get playing online. Online poker always has, and should, be different than live poker. I thought RIO was going to embrace this. Phil originally posted about starting a poker site whose goal was to ensure that the dream of being a professional was still alive and I don't see how anon tables factor into that dream at all.
Two questions for Phil Galfond regarding the hand histories being given with all hole cards shown within 24hrs :
Will it be to too easy to create a winning bot? With enough hands from multiple bots you will know or have a very accurate idea of the population's frequencies in every scenario and using solvers, whose only limitation is inputting accurate ranges, create a very profitable bot. It may make mistakes versus specific players but would consistently crush the pool as a whole. I am not sure how feasible this is, maybe it is not a concern.
At the non-anonymous high stakes will the hand histories be given 24hrs later as well? For small player pools or non-anonymous pools, revealing all hole cards for every hand seems like a massive net negative for all players and I can't see anyone willingly playing in such an environment.
My last concern (besides the obvious, there will just be a more expensive black market HUD available complaint) is that it is 2018. The poker boom has passed. Maybe we will have another, smaller one if poker is legalized in the USA but what kind of marketing campaign are you planning on running to attract newer players to your site? Pokerstars has the name recognition, amazing software, huge guarantees, an intuitive interface.
As much as I hate the rake and rakeback changes on stars and the direction they seem to be going as a whole, I find it hard to believe that you will be able to rival the environment and product they offer, especially with these decisions (launching without tournaments??) but I wish you the best.
May 8, 2018 | 7:21 p.m.