Facing the 4 Bet
Posted by Tyler Forrester
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Do you think Min-4Bet is the best size IP? If not, what size do you like best?
I go to 2.5x, but I'm not terribly opinionated as long as the size generates some fold equity and doesn't pot commit us. The minraise is really a bet that our opponent plays lousy poker postflop or is too tight preflop, because competent strategies will always call and win back some of the original 3-bet with a large variety of hands.
Another great video at this point in time!
You're amazing!
Yours videos are the best !
5:00 Do you think 4bet KQs is bad ? At lower frec seems ok but imo ev of calling is higher against pop.
10:00 What do you think of leading exploitatively for a small size OTT ?
10:40 IMO, (in vilain s perspective) I think blocking AQs and KQs is also important, when you are bluffing with AKcc are Ajcc , you re not calling by worst , your have poor blocker propriety OTR and when you get the flush river , hero is not gonna catch you often, (in practice) given the fact that he doesn’t have hand with blocker on flush, and his calling range will be often only AQs KQs (4combos) or TT (3combos but full house).
In practice again, (with hand like AcKx AKx) not having a club has the effect of generate more FE on vilain s range, because he would have hand with club who people basically folded because it bluffs your bluff perceive range.
Hope it was clear ,
12:30 If you want to target hand like AK AQ and over, isn’t better to size 1/4 or 1/3 ? Would be complicate to play river I think
27:00 Genius plays here, love it. Only problem is that it’s highly vilain dependant as you said it.
31:30 I often see PiO in 3bet and also 4bet making 75% 50% bet on the turn and having a spr lower than 1 on the river.
Are you ok with those strat ? Are maybe you prefere to ignore that and playing only shove or x because it captures just tiny less of ev.
KQs I think it's fine. The computer models tend to mix it as a 4-bet and I don't think anyone has enough of an empirical sample to disagree.
On Q T 4 Q, you could definitely lead turn here occassionally with different sizings. Looking through my database, I probably should expect more bluffs here and put this in a check-call range. His Q to weak hand ratio is really low.
At 10:40, I tend to agree with you.
On 7639, We could donk 88s smaller here and it might a better play. I don't think I played this hand particularly well.
On AQJ with JTd, I'd argue that it might be part of some maxmin strategy, but it's likely fps against the player pool.
On AQss on JsTdTc8s, I think the smaller sizing is probably better here. It's generally better to go two streets rather than one in these situations. It makes more money with our nut hands.
30 minute, fells like (vs 20% size bet) we still allow to fold 20-30%, and because this board isn't most favorable (Kx boards pretty bad in general) we fold on higher number some AQ/AJ/AT and QJ looks good; some wheel aces too.
p.s. nice video, however defending 12% in last PIO example vs 4bet seems too loose. Not sure if many solutions have that high number.
We can definitely fold some here, being oop and calling 4-bet isn't strong starting position, but I think vs 1/5 I need to be calling most hands that have some potential to improve.
I think most sims have that number of hands roughly breakeven/profitable against a 4-bet. The mixing comes in to avoid exploitation. It might be worth figuring what that exploitation is ....
Very good video thanks , I asked for it and u made it nice :) . Different scenarios on PIO like you did is great too.
I was wondering for IP now lets say we 3bet btn but we face a tight 4better, like he opens 20% but 4bets 8-10%, so 2% 4bet range or so.Should we be very tight or the advantage of being IP allow us to call like 67s, all our broadway suited, some small pocket pairs, some A5s (because it s the GTO range), but GTO 4better EP would 4bet like 4-5% range, so logically vs a 2% 4better range we should be more tight or not ?I would love to have your thoughts on that.
So yeah to summarize how do we ajust our GTO range against tight 4better
Thanks in advance
Let s assume he does good sizing , and we are 100bb.
Thanks Yuri! Stoked you enjoyed it!
GTO will force all those hands negative against a tight 4-bet range. Maybe you can exploit him in some way to make the wide range profitable, but it isn't profitable by default.
What’s your 4bet size on CU/BtN vs 3bet Sb ? 3bet Bb ?
Do you think 2.8x is a good sizing in high rake environment m
Tx
Great question! My first comment on the thread talks about this.
Nice good thoughts nice one!
The TJdd hand @26
Interesting I think, I'm not sure I think AK gets often the sigh call but depends on the pool I guess I think it's great when villain holds a decent % of AT and lower Ax combo's and does the 1/3 auto bet play because I think those will fold a ton to the jam
Thanks Bingo appreciate the love and the question! I'm leaning toward FPS here as well, but I can see the theoretical value in having some bluffs here to balance our auto jams like AQ and KT.
Yeah exactly that was what I was thinking if we want to be balanced in that spot we should have some bluffs and the TJ is one id choose as well as we have some equity vs the calling range. Just a matter of making sure we don't do too often to balance and question if we should and want to exploit villain/pool by going one way or the other I guess
I love vids about 4bets although i think models might differ a lot from reality because of range construction and population tendencies.
Nice job as usual Tyler!
Thanks Zache, I definitely agree. Making sure the models reflect reality is in someways the most important part.
Hey, Tyler Forrester - Thanks for the video! @26:57 would that AJo make a better/good 4bet if it was something like the Hijack open vs a SB 3bet, considering the fact that AJo is generally a fold there? Just trying to clarify some things in my mind. Thanks, Tyler!
Great question! I think that would be a traditional way to think about the situation. It's interesting if you let the computer sims run, they develop more merged ranges that might include AJo as a 4-bet, so it's not clear that it's dominated.
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