1min limp SB T3s face BB raise and 3bet! Flop QT3r! I thought you were going to sun run in this video until I finished watching the hand all the way through. Honestly I am just snap calling the shove here on the river. I would expect to lose to some hands like 77, but not much else. Didn't even consider what villain actually had [trying not to give spoiler]. Curious if you ever see hands such as AQ go for thin value here and shove river on QT372.
SRP oop are you mostly checking range? I see several spots where KJ CO vs BTN KQXcc you XR. Q8 on Q86cc you XR SB vs BB. Then several other spots as well. Pool just over stabbing when checked to?
I would be careful with your timing as well. There are several spots in this video where when you actually had a hand you bet rather quickly. Then when you were bluffing took a bit longer. 27:30 Table #1 would be a good example of this. Flop took some time being a middle frequency hand to bet. Then quickly checked turn with air and quickly bet river when you made top pair.
I've generally checked range in single raised pots OOP and have done so for years. The basic idea is that I can hand-read better than my opponents, so I want to gain the most information I can about hand-strength before I start to commit. It's exploitable by high-check-back frequencies, but generally most players don't adjust to an auto-check-back strategy so there's no reason to stop.
On the timing tells, I don't think I'm terribly leaky with them, because sometimes I bluff fast and value-bet slow, so the tell is substantially weaken by multitabling and occassionally changing my play.
T3s hand was RFI not limp raise fyi. River seems like relatively easy fold IMO. It's really hard to even come up with any hands that bluff this line. Sure, the value range is fairly narrow as well, but this spot in general has to be severely under bluffed by pool.
WoW! I am not sure what I was looking at with the T3s preflop. Maybe I got 2/5 and 5/10 mixed up and thought it was min raise preflop and then Tyler made it $30? Problem with viewing small ignition font size I guess but mostly my level of focus! Thanks for the correction Worm I can definitely see folding for SRP. Some reason I thought it was 3BP and felt easy stack off.
Don't like that T3 hand as well. To me seems like that river call is just emotion based decisions rather than strategic choice but of course I can be wrong.
I've started rfi far less from sb than before because I see many regs just 3betting a ton and either I should incorporate limps or tune down my opening frequency. Doesn't seems like a big deal for Tyler and he still RFI T3s and stuff :D Though I play game with nicknames and stats
And question what do you think your opponents overfolding BBvsSB right? In that case I agree with checking almost range OOP when called. Since our wide range vs their tight range can not bet a lot.
Basically, even if they aren't overfolding the flop play OOP is very flexible. The EV gains in GTO poker mainly come on the turn and river. It's not a big deal to simplify flop and then play a more expansive game on the later streets.
I put the T3s hand 1min mark into Wizard.
3bb open.
25% cbet Tyler Forrester used 31%
Turn used 150% sizing, Tyler used 173%
River I used 50% sizing, Tyler used 67%
Made range full height so it is easier to see the call off range vs a shove. Range is not as wide as Tyler is opening, so T7s is the closest hand I can find. I was shocked it is a pure call with so many of us thinking this is a fold.
What I found interesting is when hero bets river 75% and BB shoves KK starts to fold, but when hero uses 50% sizing and BB shoves KK pure calls.
That's all well and good in solver land (and don't get me wrong, I always appreciate your comments and the solves you post), but it's a pretty well known fact that humans under bluff rivers almost universally. I'm very confident these river calls vs humans (unless you have a specific read) are losing substantially.
I wouldn't say solver is bluffing here, just over value some two pair hands. The main bluffs I see are TX combos, which I am not sure how many actually continue vs the turn over-bet size. Maybe someone can input exact sizes and wider SB range. Curious what PIO is doing in this hand. I do agree it is very thin call, I do see myself calling in this spot though. I could see myself taking a 1/3, 150%, 2/3 line with a hand such as AQ on this board, so I don't expect BB to only call river with 2 pairs and let me get away with some thinner value bets AA, KK, AQ, KQ (no diamond) hands.
Maybe 73s type hands just call, but I imagine T7s and Queens up all want to shove river. Maybe can only call with queens up here? If villain shoves worse 2 pair then T7s, then more power to him/her.
I think the interesting thing about the analysis is that 73s and T2s are shoving river so we are actually in the lower end of the value range => this call makes money at equilibrium. It might not be enough to swing this to a call in practice, but it certainly indicates that bet/folding here at equilibriium would a mistake rather than an indifference threshold.
Hey Tyler. Thanks for vid. Personally would recommend less tables for live play next time just because your bread and butter is deep analysis and that's harder to do 4 tabling especially short handed.
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1min limp SB T3s face BB raise and 3bet! Flop QT3r! I thought you were going to sun run in this video until I finished watching the hand all the way through. Honestly I am just snap calling the shove here on the river. I would expect to lose to some hands like 77, but not much else. Didn't even consider what villain actually had [trying not to give spoiler]. Curious if you ever see hands such as AQ go for thin value here and shove river on QT372.
SRP oop are you mostly checking range? I see several spots where KJ CO vs BTN KQXcc you XR. Q8 on Q86cc you XR SB vs BB. Then several other spots as well. Pool just over stabbing when checked to?
I would be careful with your timing as well. There are several spots in this video where when you actually had a hand you bet rather quickly. Then when you were bluffing took a bit longer. 27:30 Table #1 would be a good example of this. Flop took some time being a middle frequency hand to bet. Then quickly checked turn with air and quickly bet river when you made top pair.
Looking forward to part 2.
I've generally checked range in single raised pots OOP and have done so for years. The basic idea is that I can hand-read better than my opponents, so I want to gain the most information I can about hand-strength before I start to commit. It's exploitable by high-check-back frequencies, but generally most players don't adjust to an auto-check-back strategy so there's no reason to stop.
On the timing tells, I don't think I'm terribly leaky with them, because sometimes I bluff fast and value-bet slow, so the tell is substantially weaken by multitabling and occassionally changing my play.
T3s hand was RFI not limp raise fyi. River seems like relatively easy fold IMO. It's really hard to even come up with any hands that bluff this line. Sure, the value range is fairly narrow as well, but this spot in general has to be severely under bluffed by pool.
WoW! I am not sure what I was looking at with the T3s preflop. Maybe I got 2/5 and 5/10 mixed up and thought it was min raise preflop and then Tyler made it $30? Problem with viewing small ignition font size I guess but mostly my level of focus! Thanks for the correction Worm I can definitely see folding for SRP. Some reason I thought it was 3BP and felt easy stack off.
Don't like that T3 hand as well. To me seems like that river call is just emotion based decisions rather than strategic choice but of course I can be wrong.
I've started rfi far less from sb than before because I see many regs just 3betting a ton and either I should incorporate limps or tune down my opening frequency. Doesn't seems like a big deal for Tyler and he still RFI T3s and stuff :D Though I play game with nicknames and stats
And question what do you think your opponents overfolding BBvsSB right? In that case I agree with checking almost range OOP when called. Since our wide range vs their tight range can not bet a lot.
Truthfully, I think I called mainly because it was video and this fold with T3s is a huge overfold frequency assuming I have a jam line.
Basically, even if they aren't overfolding the flop play OOP is very flexible. The EV gains in GTO poker mainly come on the turn and river. It's not a big deal to simplify flop and then play a more expansive game on the later streets.
I put the T3s hand 1min mark into Wizard.
3bb open.
25% cbet Tyler Forrester used 31%
Turn used 150% sizing, Tyler used 173%
River I used 50% sizing, Tyler used 67%
Made range full height so it is easier to see the call off range vs a shove. Range is not as wide as Tyler is opening, so T7s is the closest hand I can find. I was shocked it is a pure call with so many of us thinking this is a fold.
What I found interesting is when hero bets river 75% and BB shoves KK starts to fold, but when hero uses 50% sizing and BB shoves KK pure calls.
That's all well and good in solver land (and don't get me wrong, I always appreciate your comments and the solves you post), but it's a pretty well known fact that humans under bluff rivers almost universally. I'm very confident these river calls vs humans (unless you have a specific read) are losing substantially.
I wouldn't say solver is bluffing here, just over value some two pair hands. The main bluffs I see are TX combos, which I am not sure how many actually continue vs the turn over-bet size. Maybe someone can input exact sizes and wider SB range. Curious what PIO is doing in this hand. I do agree it is very thin call, I do see myself calling in this spot though. I could see myself taking a 1/3, 150%, 2/3 line with a hand such as AQ on this board, so I don't expect BB to only call river with 2 pairs and let me get away with some thinner value bets AA, KK, AQ, KQ (no diamond) hands.
Maybe 73s type hands just call, but I imagine T7s and Queens up all want to shove river. Maybe can only call with queens up here? If villain shoves worse 2 pair then T7s, then more power to him/her.
I think the interesting thing about the analysis is that 73s and T2s are shoving river so we are actually in the lower end of the value range => this call makes money at equilibrium. It might not be enough to swing this to a call in practice, but it certainly indicates that bet/folding here at equilibriium would a mistake rather than an indifference threshold.
Hey Tyler. Thanks for vid. Personally would recommend less tables for live play next time just because your bread and butter is deep analysis and that's harder to do 4 tabling especially short handed.
The video was still enjoyable though :)
Thanks for the feedback, I like to switch it up a bit and have some live-plays even though my bread and butter is situational analysis.
Just to be clear, I like the live plays from you just think less tables than 4 would make for a more enjoyable video imo.
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