Only Daniel could say that ...

I like the heart, but you can see the over-analysis from his perspective.

It's hard to reason out the best sizing here with the giant turn overbet. I think he folds most club draws so he probably usually has a 7 or K here on river.

I’ll take that as a compliment,

No one is going to buy that I have a strong hand here, but I still have some hands that play okay as defenses oop like pocket pairs and suited connectors.

In the video we mostly saw you over limp AXs, PP, J9s, 76s, etc. What are you doing with the bottom of your range for the 9Xo, 1-2 gap SCs, AXo, etc? I'll make a mental note of how tight, loose, or tricky the limpers are for isolating tight vs a wide range.

I expect my player pool to limp call a ton! Where I don't see value in getting many folds preflop unless I go to 8bb+ I think I will get 1-2 callers most of the time and then make money post flop when they just XF or XC-XF. I've been adding an extra BB to my iso range for some of my strongest hands. Vs 1 limper I'll go 5bb with the top 8% or so of hands and then 4bb with the rest of my iso range, 9-20% range of hands. Vs 2 limpers, I'll go 5bb weaker part of my range and 7bb again with the top 8% or so of hands. Not too worried about balance because they will see me put in 5bb with my premiums vs 1 limper and 5bb with weak hands vs 2 limpers and I don't think they are paying attention to those details to know I'm splitting my range.

At least anonymously the actual iso ranges are pretty tight like 10-13 percent because the limping range is on average the top 25 percent. If they are wider or raise their best hands then we can adjust this number up. The iso should never hit offsuit 9s because they are marginal opens against the blinds on the button so adding one extra player is going make the raise worse.

For limping in position - the older advice is offsuit broadways, suited connectors, one gaps and offsuit connectors. I tend to keep it tighter because the isos in online games from the blinds tend to be quite wide.

It’s possible to expand given low raise frequencies from the blinds but the deep sprs mean marginal 2 pair plus combos will become bluffcatchers for stacks. This has presented problems for playing these hands for most players because it requires being much more discerning about hand strength.

This is textbook example of the limp reraise.

Thanks Hunter!

Yeah definitely valuable part of poker, particularly live.

Basically it’s a math problem based on the isolating frequencies. If you have players trying to iso 30-40 percent of hands then the overlimp reraise is impossible to defend against and will occur enough to justify the play. If the players are more reasonable like 10-15 percent iso then there is no advantage to the play.

There’s a reg type with 100 percent limp 3-bet from utg. I thought it was that player (clearly wrong).

Ah yes, that's a fair point, there are a few players like that around. And a bunch of bots do this too! I think the premise of the play is that people ISO you too wide so your limp gets more action that it should and then you get to re-raise with a strong hand

If I recall a long time ago Johnathan little wrote a book that discussed only playing a limp first in strategy for live cash from the first 3 positions. Because there is very little 3 betting going on but a bunch of iso raising and pot builder raising, we get to limp raise from the first 3 spots. Also when we do open 3bb or so in live cash we are typically out of position in a full ring game, so RFI didn't accomplish much. Kryzstov also made a RIO video in the past for six max where he only played a limp first in strategy. I would still only recommend playing 15-20% hands for a limp from EP, then Limp raise top 7% of hands about 40% of your range.

More recently I have heard a few top regs recommending to limp instead of raise when there is a whale to your left. Very similar logic to what RunItTw1ce has suggested above. If you raise, the whale calls IP, then regs either call IP or squeeze you, none of which are great scenarios. If you limp, the whale limps/calls, gets ISOed wide and then you can call and see flops very often, or re-raise. Given that lots of players ISO too wide, your strong hands gain a lot from the extra money in the pot plus the chance to lower the SPR OOP with strong 1 pair hands.

matlittle I can see the limping idea oop against the whale. It does have this odd effect of forcing the whale out of the pot on the 3-bet. However the extra EV added by the whale almost certainly increases the number of playable hands so there may be some offset.

Thanks mx404. I will try to do a blend. I personally prefer this to PokerGo, but the PokerGo videos definitely generate enough engagement to justify making them.

Okay so if both players fold more on the flop => they have more two pair going into the turn => one pair is less valuable on the turn => turning a top pair hand is less valuable than a headsup pot => I don't need to bet as much for protection, because they win less.

Tyler Forrester

they have more two pair going into the turn

This has to do with the flop texture right? Say like this particular hand with 443r (or maybe a board like T72r) - Villain just has no reasonable two pairs combo in their call-3bet range. Does that mean we could size up the flop? Thanks!

This all about multiway pots and how tight the flop calling ranges are comparatively. 3-way ranges are approximately 33% tighter than headsup ranges. So if board has 10% 2p+ headsup on the turn. It's now 15% 2p+ 3-way. This has a large dampening effect on value betting sizes.

So two players build one side of the equilbrium and the third play builds the other side.

Because we are combining two strategies to build the side of equilibrium, it turns out there is an infinite number of those two strategies that will create the same equilbrium. For the 3-way solvers they choose a one strategy for every player and ignore the other types of strategies.

Mathematically, this line should Ah-Flush or bluff, so nothing is terribly strong. He's supposed to fold flushes so calling 1 heart combos will be -EV.

The data is pretty clear that most players don't limp more with weaker hands. The limping ranges are generally pretty balanced. This of course is player dependent. However I don't think VPIP/PFR is enough to make those decisions.

On 33, given the 100% 3-bet player types, I'm still comfortable with my lipm because I could easily be 3-bet 45-50% of the time here by the blended player type.

A flush KhJh

It's the balance between keeping flush-draws in and making sure to stack trips 7s. It's a tough balancing act.

It is headsup as opener vs the big blind, because the big blind tends to 3-bet off lots of nut combos. 3-way against overbet, players should start to fold top pair, but most players have heuristics against folding okay draws and top pair, so exploitatively the play makes more money.

but most players have heuristics against folding okay draws and top pair, so exploitatively the play makes more money

Ah this makes a lot of sense! Does that also mean that when we are bluffing - we should be far more selective since with that exploit our FE is expected to be lower?

Tyler Forrester

@Mx404 Yes definitely. Though most players underbluff naturally, so we need to be careful taking that idea too far.

He's a tighter passive recreational player. If he doesn't use protection bets from his perspective he is likely only called by better with QQ, so he checks. It's not unreasonable here to try to slowdown given the perceived strength of the limp 3-bet.

You will get bluffed on these nodes, in fact, it's probably an easier bet/call when I look at my MDA. However, if you don't know this, you can always just call a fraction of the time to make the bluffs indifferent. If you call fractionally, you guarantee wins against bluffs, which is really all you need to make the play okay.

it's probably an easier bet/call when I look at my MDA

You mean these nodes actually get overbluffed a lot by "easier bet/call" from a MDA standpoint?

Yes, exactly.

1) Pot size bets from recreational players tend to be the strongest sizing.
2) Board Pairign with straight draws and two flush draws out, mean 100% of the many many combos of draws missed.

3) Pairs have quite a bit equity against his overall range, so I am biased to call sizings that have close to the correct number of bluffs on a generic board.

so I am biased to call sizings that have close to the correct number of bluffs

what size is that? b75 seems more reasonable?

Truthfully anything but pot probably does have enough bluffs here.