Checkraise Situations

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Checkraise Situations

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Tyler Forrester

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Checkraise Situations

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Tyler Forrester

POSTED Nov 01, 2024

Tyler Forrester filters for hands where he opted to check raise the flop and explores the best course of action.

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SoundSpeed 4 months ago

Hi Tyler,

5:00 maybe my mind is stuck in 6max mode, but there just doesn't seem to be a large number of 5x in either range. It seems you can continue to bet 70% up to full pot. Is that just a big ev error?

15:20 is it preferable for him to call with a club to have that back door eq and potential future blocker, or is it preferable to not have a club so he unblocks more of your bluff range making your range less made hand dense?

Thanks!

Tyler Forrester 4 months ago

Thanks Soundspeed, really appreciate the question! Both players have 5x in headsup, because there are simply more offsuit 5x played (K5o,A5o,65o,75o,54o at a minimum).

I don't think betting here is a big EV error, but I do think always betting the few nut combos here while checking the rest can create some exploitable imbalances on the checking range.

You basically always want the backdoor flush draw, because your pair outs are higher ev (hitting the flush completing pair is quite low value) and you also suck out on nut hands more (that 4% backdoor flush is quite a bit of equity against a set).

RunItTw1ce 4 months ago

13:30 Good break down on SB donking vs BTN on ATX based on the IP frequency being less than or greater than 50%. I always thought of SB just checking range in this spot because IP has a range / nut advantage. I never considered the cbet frequency.

16:15 QQ6r I like the XMR. Nuno talked about this a few videos back as an exploit because its very easy to over fold against given the pot odds.

20 min I think this is a good spot to XR-XC. I am thinking of it as a tighter formation given the flop range got narrowed significantly with the XR. Feels a bit uncomfortable playing XR-B-B so similar to using TPGK+ in a SRP, using trips + good kicker in this spot where you still beat worse Qx seems like the right thing to do. Maybe a bit tight and it should be more of the Q8s-Q2s that check and Q9+ still barrels. A XMR-XMR would be pretty sexy though. You mentioned you want to use 2/3 pot to get 6x to call. What do you think of using XMR-B33 on the turn? Because hands like 6x in your spot might play Xr-X, so can you still b33 with 6x to balance out your Qx?

Tyler Forrester 4 months ago

This QJ combo has quite a few viable lines and should be used in most of them, to keep your opponent off-center. We could use the double minraise to penalize his airballs and weaker hands. We could also use a check-call line to hopefully induce him to bluff and value bet wider (assuming that I always have a T or 6). They all have some utility so I don't a strong preference between them.

RunItTw1ce 4 months ago

Last hand of the video I thought this would be an easy Xr-X-XC spot if you faced a river bet. I think people will stab a turn ace quite aggressive if they had it and be more inclined to realize their equity with a draw. There are so many missed draws that have to float the flop to the XMR that the bluff allowance is really high in this spot. I have the opposite view point that this spot is significantly over bluffed by the IP player facing a XMR-X-X line. Turning this hand into a XR-X-XRAI line I think should only be done at high stakes. I honestly don't know what hands can call vs this line that check back the turn.

Tyler Forrester 4 months ago

I think that's the idea is that you block most of the calling range and it's also a very low frequency checkraise combo so combining those two things -- the solver always prefers XAI with combos that block calls and don't occur very often in the range. Which would seem to make this a slam dunk. I don't know in practice how well it works, becasue this scenario is quite unusual and I don't have MDA for it.

TRUEPOWER 4 months ago

Haha double check raise!

When we do lead out this turn after we check raise this flop, what’s a good lead size to lead expecting to get called by some 10x?

Tyler Forrester 4 months ago

There's basically going to be 2 sizings here. Either a small block to try to get that last dribble of value out of underpairs with Tx or a bigger sizing repping 5x+. The actual question here condenses down to how much weakness the small bet is viewed with.

TRUEPOWER 4 months ago

Pretty wicked line here with 65o
Think if you do flat turn, think he can just give up on brick river maybe

RunItTw1ce 4 months ago

if you do flat turn

You don't need to try and win every hand by hero calling king high. Keep in mind the this is $5/$10. Still a $53 bet and unlikely to give up on the river unless its a 6 or 5. Low stakes more likely to give up but high stake players are going to go for it more often than not.

Tyler Forrester 4 months ago

It's fun to see holecards, but equity ultimately makes our decisions. And we do not have enough equity with K2o to continue even if 65o is pure bet here.

matlittle 4 months ago

I had a look at this hand in the solver, because I was curious as to whether betting turn with 65 was a mistake.

The solver will basically pure bet it with a heart, and check without. The other suits block more of the weak back-door hands like 86ss, 86cc, 86dd, 85ss, 85cc, 85dd.

65 can also bet-call the turn here for close to 2bb in EV too, so you are not folding a bunch of equity if you get raised.

matlittle 4 months ago

Also, I feel like in general, betting here out-performs compared to the EV generated in the solver. In most of these scenarios the small bet usually garners more folds from humans than it would from a solver I think? Not sure about on this specific board-pairing turn as OOP might check a lot more strong hands than usual.

Tyler Forrester 4 months ago

matlittle I think for many years I would agree with your analysis, but the prevalence of both RTA and easily available solutions on very common node, I don't think that it's as likely to be clearly always a bet.

RunItTw1ce 4 months ago

matlittle thanks for the screen shot. Betting 6h5x 6x5h here makes a lot of sense as OOP will XR-X with a lot of bdfd and having a rainbow turn unblocking all the XR-XF hands where they don't pick up equity is a simple heuristic. IP usually barrels the turn suit unblocking bdfd that XC-XF so vs XR-X it appears to be the same. If Tyler played XC-X I'm sure having a heart on the turn with your OESD is best with both lines.

LuminoI 2 months ago

Connecting myself to the new video on geometric size when we're not going into deep gto nodes.
The hand in minute 2:11 wouldn't it be optimal to xr 3e? I doubt that most players would 3b close to enough times this spot + we have a stackable hand.
I don't play hu so i could be wrong on my read

Tyler Forrester 2 months ago

You definitely could checkraise to 2e and then jam river. It's a bit tricky because his range I believe here is actually kind of weak with our card-removal so we are going to a big overfold, no matter what action sequence we take.

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