Appreciate it; I believe the next video should be "part 2: post flop play" in a general sense such as this video, but I'll take that into consideration for future videos. Thanks for the feedback!
Hi nick! Awesome to see PLO in such an easy way.
Do you think PLO online (with the rake effect) it's a good option for transitioning for the next years?
I always see in live poker the best table, without doubt, it's the PLO one in the whole casino, but online it's a good long term choice? Thanks, considering few months ago to transition and never took the courage to.
That's a good question. I would say probably Phil's videos that are reviewing players/RIO members at 1/2 or lower for the essential members are a good place to start. I haven't seen all of the other guys' videos, but I think he does a good job of finding a way to relate the material that is often quite advanced so that players who are transitioning understand. I think from what I recall Tom Chambers' theory videos seem to be pretty useful for anyone looking to build upon their foundation.
I would say so mainly because the difference in skill level across the player pools is quite large from what I see. NL is just far more advanced and it's tough to have a large edge in most online NL pools. The American sites are still pretty soft, but even those aren't even close to as fishy as the PLO pools. With the additions of solvers and players/coaches showcasing their findings regarding PLO sims, PLO is likely going to advance at a pretty good pace over the next few years, but I think it's still early enough to learn, get in and profit. Just keep in mind that due to the variance it may take longer to truly realize your edge in these games, but I still think if you are looking to put in a lot of volume online PLO is the way to go. Hope that helped!
That's the answer i was looking for finally going with it, thanks, hope your series "transitioning from NLH to PLO" are gonna continue!
Thanks and very good work;)
No worries and appreciate the feedback! I think I will look into more videos that cover the differences in the two game formats and how players can help themselves transition easier.
Completely new to PLO so I have a pretty basic question.
You mention that AA63r is better to played multiway with high SPR but u also mention that AA combos are going to be the main 4-bets. Does this mean for AA63r we want to flat V's raises but when we raise and get 3-bet, we want to 4-bet and get it in for stacks?
Hi Wub, yeah so most times your AA combos will want to 3 bet, but there are some rare times as mentioned where it's okay to mix in some flats with your worst AA combos like AA63r (they will pretty much always be the rainbow AA combos). With standard stacks we are pretty much 4 betting most times and for simplicity for now I would say just stick with that, but there will be rare instances where you can consider flatting 3 bets with AA combos that I think can either be used as slow plays or when stack sizes may dictate a rare flat.
The scenario that we want to avoid with really weak AA combos like AA63r is OOP with a higher SPR because we will really struggle to realize our equity on many boards/runouts. If we can sometimes flat some weak AA combos from the BB for example vs let's say an UTG open and MP call instead of opting for a squeeze when you are effectively deeper, then you will have a chance to overset someone with the ability to often get away for cheap opposed to squeezing and likely getting action from at least the PFR, if not both players IP who will probably make your life hell post flop with an awkward SPR.
Let me know if that made sense and if not I will be happy to clear anything up!
Hey Nick, awesome video man really doing a great job. I'm just turning in into PLO after playing mtt's fulltime for 2 years. You're telling us that we should be 3betting 8765ds against utg open if we're in the CO as we want that hand HU. What do we do if we're in the BB and UTG opens and no one flats, do we just defend or do we still 3bet OOP?
Thanks my friend! That's great that you are giving PLO a shot; it's such a great game. Yeah, so essentially those middling/non broadway rundowns do better HU against EP ranges simply because they have good visibility post flop. Your flush draws and two pairs aren't as vulnerable and those types of hands are good ones to also use to help balance your range for when you do 3 bet other combos like AA, AJJ8ds and AKQ6ds.
If you are in the BB you are obviously going to be able to close the action HU, so you don't have to 3 bet those combos as often, but I would at least probably half of the time if they are double suited rundowns, especially if you are playing in games where the rake is a little more of a factor. When that's the case we are going to want to put more money in preflop and play in larger pots to offset that, so it makes sense to 3 bet more and cold call a little less. If you are in the SB I would 3 bet those rundowns a little more often just because you don't want to really be OOP to the BB and the PFR with a combo that just does better HU for the reasons stated.
Let me know if that all makes sense and if not we can talk some more!
It's essentially the ability to know where you stand in the hand on current and future streets. How well can you realize your equity on runouts? So, for example let's say you flop bottom set with no redraws on a dynamic board like Th8s5h and check to your opponent who is IP. He bets and the action is on you with with a higher SPR; many players will go for x/r when x/c can be a better option with such deep stacks because our visibility on future streets is really poor. We don't block any draws that will very often come in and because of that we have poor visibility and a hand that often wants to play more cautiously.
Another one where we have good visibility would be when an UTG player opens preflop, we 3 bet IP with 9765ds and he is the only caller. Flop is 652s. We have pretty good visibility on future streets because our opponent's range is often lacking the kinds of combos that hit this flop texture and most coordinated runouts well. Let's say the action goes check/bet/call and the turn is a 7. You can feel much more comfortable with 3 pair in this spot than say on a QJ8K board where your visibility is a little more poor with your opponent's range hitting this flop texture much harder. You don't know quite where you are in that spot, but on the 652s7 board you feel much more confident in committing because your visibility or understanding of where you are at in the hand is very great. Sound good?
I haven't read any in quite some time to be honest, but I have heard John Beauprez's book is pretty solid. Think it's a little pricier, but I would say you would be served well if you focused on going through the videos on this very site. Tom Coldwell has some good videos for guys that are newer to the game. I can vouch for the quality of the other PLO instructors on this site, so take a look at their videos and maybe even try the "learning path" tab under "pro videos" for specific topics related to PLO. Let me know if you have any questions as well.
This is the first PLO video I've seen on here that I felt comfortable with. I'm playing a 1/3 streamed game at a card room in a couple weeks but Im totally new so Im trying to learn as much as I can, haha. Thank you for laying it all out so I can digest it!
Not always. So, the combos that are good against AA are pretty much anything that is double suited and is either a very connected pair or preferably a rundown. Combos like JT97ds (~44% EQ vs AA) or 8876ds (~42% EQ vs AA) fit this. Combos that are closer to breakeven vs a 4bet for pot are going to be combos like KKT5ds (~33% EQ) and AQJTss (~33% EQ). Some players will fold the breakeven combos to fade the variance, but they are essentially breakeven at 33-34%. Where you can get into trouble is with combos that are single suited pairs like KKT5ss or AKKss/AQQss. Those are actually closer to around 28% due to their lack of visibility and likelihood of being dominated by what is often almost exclusively an AA heavy 4 betting range.
In general, be careful with pairs and ace high combos vs 4 bets if you are operating under the assumption that the 4 betting range is pretty much just AA. You need to be double suited and/or lower in actual card rank to increase visibility. For example, 9987ss has around 38% equity vs AA whereas AQQTss has only about 32%.
Let me know if that makes sense and if you want more examples. You can mess around with an equity calculator as well to see what types of combos are pushing what kind of equity vs an assumed 4 betting range.
Nick. I so wish I would have watched this video earlier - not sure why I never did. This video is one of the best. Simple. Well articulated and helpful for someone who has been playing PLO for a year. I would have saved some real money had I watched this right away. Thank you.
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Thanks Nick, I definitely found this discussion helpful being a nlhe player just making a slow transition to plo games, good luck!
Thanks Dallas! Glad you enjoyed the video and good luck to you as well.
Enjoyed this video thanks. It would be good to see more basic theory PLO videos like this in future.
Appreciate it; I believe the next video should be "part 2: post flop play" in a general sense such as this video, but I'll take that into consideration for future videos. Thanks for the feedback!
This is a must watch for all players transitioning to PLO.
Looking forward to part 2
Nicely done Nick
Thank you. Appreciate the feedback!
This is hands down the best and clearest explanation I have ever had on preflop ranges in PLO. Thanks.
You are welcome! Glad the video is helping out.
Hi nick! Awesome to see PLO in such an easy way.
Do you think PLO online (with the rake effect) it's a good option for transitioning for the next years?
I always see in live poker the best table, without doubt, it's the PLO one in the whole casino, but online it's a good long term choice? Thanks, considering few months ago to transition and never took the courage to.
PD: would be awesome to see what list of videos you would recommend to transition from nLH to PLO (including yours that i found extremely well built)
That's a good question. I would say probably Phil's videos that are reviewing players/RIO members at 1/2 or lower for the essential members are a good place to start. I haven't seen all of the other guys' videos, but I think he does a good job of finding a way to relate the material that is often quite advanced so that players who are transitioning understand. I think from what I recall Tom Chambers' theory videos seem to be pretty useful for anyone looking to build upon their foundation.
I would say so mainly because the difference in skill level across the player pools is quite large from what I see. NL is just far more advanced and it's tough to have a large edge in most online NL pools. The American sites are still pretty soft, but even those aren't even close to as fishy as the PLO pools. With the additions of solvers and players/coaches showcasing their findings regarding PLO sims, PLO is likely going to advance at a pretty good pace over the next few years, but I think it's still early enough to learn, get in and profit. Just keep in mind that due to the variance it may take longer to truly realize your edge in these games, but I still think if you are looking to put in a lot of volume online PLO is the way to go. Hope that helped!
That's the answer i was looking for finally going with it, thanks, hope your series "transitioning from NLH to PLO" are gonna continue!
Thanks and very good work;)
No worries and appreciate the feedback! I think I will look into more videos that cover the differences in the two game formats and how players can help themselves transition easier.
Hey Nick, thanks for making the video.
Completely new to PLO so I have a pretty basic question.
You mention that AA63r is better to played multiway with high SPR but u also mention that AA combos are going to be the main 4-bets. Does this mean for AA63r we want to flat V's raises but when we raise and get 3-bet, we want to 4-bet and get it in for stacks?
Hi Wub, yeah so most times your AA combos will want to 3 bet, but there are some rare times as mentioned where it's okay to mix in some flats with your worst AA combos like AA63r (they will pretty much always be the rainbow AA combos). With standard stacks we are pretty much 4 betting most times and for simplicity for now I would say just stick with that, but there will be rare instances where you can consider flatting 3 bets with AA combos that I think can either be used as slow plays or when stack sizes may dictate a rare flat.
The scenario that we want to avoid with really weak AA combos like AA63r is OOP with a higher SPR because we will really struggle to realize our equity on many boards/runouts. If we can sometimes flat some weak AA combos from the BB for example vs let's say an UTG open and MP call instead of opting for a squeeze when you are effectively deeper, then you will have a chance to overset someone with the ability to often get away for cheap opposed to squeezing and likely getting action from at least the PFR, if not both players IP who will probably make your life hell post flop with an awkward SPR.
Let me know if that made sense and if not I will be happy to clear anything up!
Hey Nick, awesome video man really doing a great job. I'm just turning in into PLO after playing mtt's fulltime for 2 years. You're telling us that we should be 3betting 8765ds against utg open if we're in the CO as we want that hand HU. What do we do if we're in the BB and UTG opens and no one flats, do we just defend or do we still 3bet OOP?
Cheers
Thanks my friend! That's great that you are giving PLO a shot; it's such a great game. Yeah, so essentially those middling/non broadway rundowns do better HU against EP ranges simply because they have good visibility post flop. Your flush draws and two pairs aren't as vulnerable and those types of hands are good ones to also use to help balance your range for when you do 3 bet other combos like AA, AJJ8ds and AKQ6ds.
If you are in the BB you are obviously going to be able to close the action HU, so you don't have to 3 bet those combos as often, but I would at least probably half of the time if they are double suited rundowns, especially if you are playing in games where the rake is a little more of a factor. When that's the case we are going to want to put more money in preflop and play in larger pots to offset that, so it makes sense to 3 bet more and cold call a little less. If you are in the SB I would 3 bet those rundowns a little more often just because you don't want to really be OOP to the BB and the PFR with a combo that just does better HU for the reasons stated.
Let me know if that all makes sense and if not we can talk some more!
Can you please expand on "visibility"?
It's essentially the ability to know where you stand in the hand on current and future streets. How well can you realize your equity on runouts? So, for example let's say you flop bottom set with no redraws on a dynamic board like Th8s5h and check to your opponent who is IP. He bets and the action is on you with with a higher SPR; many players will go for x/r when x/c can be a better option with such deep stacks because our visibility on future streets is really poor. We don't block any draws that will very often come in and because of that we have poor visibility and a hand that often wants to play more cautiously.
Another one where we have good visibility would be when an UTG player opens preflop, we 3 bet IP with 9765ds and he is the only caller. Flop is 652s. We have pretty good visibility on future streets because our opponent's range is often lacking the kinds of combos that hit this flop texture and most coordinated runouts well. Let's say the action goes check/bet/call and the turn is a 7. You can feel much more comfortable with 3 pair in this spot than say on a QJ8K board where your visibility is a little more poor with your opponent's range hitting this flop texture much harder. You don't know quite where you are in that spot, but on the 652s7 board you feel much more confident in committing because your visibility or understanding of where you are at in the hand is very great. Sound good?
Great video, what happened to Part 2?????????????
Hi Kevin, part 2 is up just check through my videos and it should be in there!
Ok thank you, and do you know of any good books on plo???? I am a new plo player who used to play NLHE.
I haven't read any in quite some time to be honest, but I have heard John Beauprez's book is pretty solid. Think it's a little pricier, but I would say you would be served well if you focused on going through the videos on this very site. Tom Coldwell has some good videos for guys that are newer to the game. I can vouch for the quality of the other PLO instructors on this site, so take a look at their videos and maybe even try the "learning path" tab under "pro videos" for specific topics related to PLO. Let me know if you have any questions as well.
This is the first PLO video I've seen on here that I felt comfortable with. I'm playing a 1/3 streamed game at a card room in a couple weeks but Im totally new so Im trying to learn as much as I can, haha. Thank you for laying it all out so I can digest it!
No problem 209twitch! If you have any questions feel free to ask. Thanks for the feedback.
Are we defending all of our 3 bets to pot 4 bets ?
Not always. So, the combos that are good against AA are pretty much anything that is double suited and is either a very connected pair or preferably a rundown. Combos like JT97ds (~44% EQ vs AA) or 8876ds (~42% EQ vs AA) fit this. Combos that are closer to breakeven vs a 4bet for pot are going to be combos like KKT5ds (~33% EQ) and AQJTss (~33% EQ). Some players will fold the breakeven combos to fade the variance, but they are essentially breakeven at 33-34%. Where you can get into trouble is with combos that are single suited pairs like KKT5ss or AKKss/AQQss. Those are actually closer to around 28% due to their lack of visibility and likelihood of being dominated by what is often almost exclusively an AA heavy 4 betting range.
In general, be careful with pairs and ace high combos vs 4 bets if you are operating under the assumption that the 4 betting range is pretty much just AA. You need to be double suited and/or lower in actual card rank to increase visibility. For example, 9987ss has around 38% equity vs AA whereas AQQTss has only about 32%.
Let me know if that makes sense and if you want more examples. You can mess around with an equity calculator as well to see what types of combos are pushing what kind of equity vs an assumed 4 betting range.
Hey Nick. Great video, very well explained and easy to understand. Definitely will be looking into more of your materials.
Thanks splitpersonality! Glad you enjoyed it and just let me know in the future if you have any questions about any of the videos.
Nick. I so wish I would have watched this video earlier - not sure why I never did. This video is one of the best. Simple. Well articulated and helpful for someone who has been playing PLO for a year. I would have saved some real money had I watched this right away. Thank you.
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