Dealing with Flop Check Raises on Low Stakes Ignition
Posted by Tariq Haji
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Enjoyed the video. I often struggle to actually fold in situations like the first 2 hands you reviewed even when I'm almost sure it's the play against pop. Working on it and seeing people do it and it going well helps.
The check-raise analysis was very useful, just like the donk bets one, think that reviewing 2 hands after was great, always helpful to see strong players applying the information on the video.
Think that given the difference in check-raising ranges related to size on late positions, could there be a group of hands that prefer a smaller size in theory but that would do better to go bigger as an exploit?
Hey Mudkip, glad you enjoyed!
With regards to your last statement, yea I think what you're saying is true. Maybe some spots you wanna go bigger with bluffs and vice versa.
Absolutely love both the play and analysis. Really confirms some instincts in a way that makes me feel much more comfortable when I take this right over to my game. Thanks for the great vid
Hey EditBay, thanks for those kind words, it means a lot :).
I didn't know you could use HUD's on Ignition. what do you use?
I just use pokertracker4! It supports Ignition
Another good video! I like this format a lot.
FYI, if you get the Ignition Hand Converter and Hand2Note, you can pretty easily set up popups or range research to dig in to these spots more easily. I bet it would save you a ton of time.
Here's a popup I made. This is from ~60k hands of 25zone on Bovada. It's worth noting just how much softer the regular games are even at 100nl compared to the zone games! You can see overall checkraise is 15% against small sizings with not a ton of difference between the PFR's position.
And here's what you get when you mouseover any of the stats (Note what the query looks like on the right if you decide to look into this):
Hey Brett Banks, thank you for this! I've heard of hand2note but never used it but clearly it looks extremely helpful.
Thanks for making this comment, I'll look into getting it to help me with further database work.
With the AhKh hand that you reviewed. What do you think about CR shoving the river as a bluff vs his sizing?
You can have all combos of JJ, TT, KK and KJ - While I expect he would 3bet TT-KK always. So he if only calls with full house + A high flushes (which there are not many combos of) doesn't it seem like quite a profitable line?
I think he's sizing looks quite a lot like QJo'ish kind of hands
Hi Tobias7, while I can get behind your logic of the BB never having a full house, I think x/r here as a bluff is not the best.
Mainly because bvb ranges are so wide that people tend to not give you credit so I'd be pretty weary when choosing to x/r bluff here.
If it was UTG vs BB for example I'd be way more likely to turn something like this into a bluff since my UTG range is already very narrow and I can more credibly rep a full house. Hope this helped!
29:50 with 66 on the btn vs CO 2.5x when you talked about 3 betting 77+ on the btn and folding 22-66 I noticed the CO F3B was at 100%. I think you can just 3 bet a wide range here and really abuse this player. Some times I get out of line and it ends up costing me, but I do believe we have to step way outside monker ranges when someone is not defending vs 3 bets. I would be 3betting basically any broadway here, SCs, PP I would still mix, AXs, maybe something like a HJ opening range I think you can get away with 3 betting here. I am not too worried about cold calls or cold 4 bets from the blinds either.
Side note for the HUD if you make it transparent I think it looks better and it won't block the players timer if you want to align it under their names or next to instead of being spread out.
Was just setting up my HUD today, not sure what stats to use given the same size will likely only be 20-100 hands on most players. Not even sure if 3 bet / cbet stats are that useful given such a small sample of hands. I think it's mostly just going to be notes and Vpip/pfr that we get the most info from. Everything else could just be pop up.
Player / hands / notes
vpip / pfr / ats
cbet F / fold F cbet / 3 bet / fold 3 bet
Thanks in advance Tariq Haji any feed back.
You mention sample size in this post but want to rely on fold to 3b of 100. That's a stat that takes a while to converge.
The sample size to start with is 110 hands. His PFR is 18. So we're down to a sample of 20 already. Then consider there's maybe a 20% chance he gets 3bet on any of those open (this is probably high). Now we're down to 4 hands. Too little to draw any conclusions from IMO
Brett Banks You think I should just use Vpip / PFR / 3bet then for my stats? Since sample size will be pretty low in general? I tried to abuse a couple of players on 10NL as I was getting set up and kept getting 4 bet jammed on LOL. Out of my set up, which stats would you add / remove given small samples?
Yeah those are the most quick to converge stats. I think it's fine to keep fold 3bet to help keep track of big outliers and you can always mouseover to see sample size.
I'd also add positional open raise stats. Those converge somewhat quickly and there is a common type of LAGfish that seems to prefer to "steal" from EP.
Also I'd add Agg Freq. It suffers sample issues with tighter players but when I spot a player with like 40+ VPIP and a Agg Freq over 1, I know they're capable of bluffs in a lot of spots that you might not normally think they are.
Many of the common stats are still pretty useful to more easily spot leaks in loose players because they see so many more opportunities to make various plays than TAGs do.
Hey...Love your style of coaching, very unstandable. Towards the end of the vid you say an ideal CR% is between 10-12%, is that only in the BB vs. single raised pots or that the ideal frequency in general?
Thank you in advance!
Flop check raise % in general but most common is BB in srp
Great content as usual! Thanks a lot, can't wait to see more.
Hi Tariq Haji
on the first AK hand what do you think about using a xbb line..
my thinking is only 2 streets of value
not vulnerable
not getting called by worse much
protect your KK, QQ that might want to check flop
around 11:00 the As8d hand: imo - the flop bet size doesnt give the impression of a fd. the range bet on flop looks more like pairs or air. idk if players at this stake are capable of folding straights they got on the river. then the A and Q of diamonds actually make it harder for you to have a flush in their eyes if they are better players.....i think sets of jjj and 999 bet more...maybe half - 2/3 pot on flop...i like the turn call as 2p on the turn board does not really want to get in but is too strong to fold
Really enjoyed analyzing the time you took to analyze all c/r spots. I very well be wrong here, but the first hand reviewed (K10 on 10 3 4 10 on the turn) I feel like your play is fine. Most pop in my experience plays boats much slower than V did. I would still just call the lead on the turn, as most players I feel like are c/r or even just c/c boats in that spot. I feel like V is more weighted towards big draws than boats once he leads on the turn. Really enjoyed the video.
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