Great series and would love to see more live play. Also thought it would be interesting to see some more work with the preflop solver like in the defend vs 3bet co vs bb video. Not sure if the solver can do it but would be interesting to see how the most marginal defends do vs pop opening ranges instead of just vs solvers opening ranges.
You can definitely lock in a range for the OOP 3-bet and take a look at the solver response. In my experience if you just play around with the combos that are getting 3-bet but keep value:bluff ratio ~constant the defending ranges are pretty stable and tend to expand a little bit once the 3-bettor is using non optimal combos.
Great video as usual daniel. At 26:30 facing a hj open we have qtss on btn with 27bb. You say we could sometimes rip here. Can we ever have a normal 3bet/call and 3bet/fold rng with 27bb? It seems like this would give us greater flexibility as well as protect our stack rather than just a call or jam strat.
You can definitely have a 3bet/call and 3bet/fold range 27bb deep, but I think that we should have a shoving range as well. A hand like QTs is not a hand that I would want to have as part of my small 3-bet range at these stacks because 3-betting it doesn't accomplish that much (relative to other hands that we can use to bluff with) and we fold a bit more equity than we would want to the times we get 4-bet shoved on.
Your bluffs should come from hands with good blockers that don't lose out on too much equity when they get shoved on and aren't great flats. Stuff like A9o, offsuit broadways that are on the weaker side and I don't want to flat with would be where the majority of my bluffs come from.
the mix of humility, knowledge, self-confidence and passion for the game is just charming.
@35:00 what betsize would you choose should you lead? 7bb?
mentioned you have all the sets and playing check/decide MW with one card to come is troublesome. can't really X/C vs decently sized bet. or can? hard to get paid on rivered flush. X/AI into sets also is unattractive. bet must be the superior play.
Yeah, if I bet I think I'd use a pretty big bet size since I'm betting so polar. Maybe not quite 7b, but something around 2/3rds pot seems intuitively right.
I think we can x/c a decently sized bet - our outs are very clean, we dominate a few FD combos.
one more q: do u have a rule of thumb for such spots? once x/c turn and hit riv flush, if to lead or x/r? on one hand want max value with x/r, other it sucks when villain xback.
will take chance to write ty for earlier 'intuitive gto' video, i've been doing pio research this way ever since saw it.
figured in a spot like when X/C it's not about the implied odds of getting paid on the river as much as simply immediate odds and realising equity of a strong hand. still don't know if filled on river plan should be mostly bet or x/r.
Right, the turn call is more about immediate odds and having a hand that realizes equity well across rivers.
one more q: do u have a rule of thumb for such spots? once x/c turn and hit riv flush, if to lead or x/r? on one hand want max value with x/r, other it sucks when villain xback.
The rule of thumb is to not lead rivers after x/c unless the river somehow drastically improves your overall range compared to your opponents. Generally these situations are very rare, I don't think this is one of them.
Thanks! I try to do a balance of theory videos and stuff like this as I find it's a pretty even split with viewer's preferences. Personally I prefer to do theory stuff myself as well :)
Hey, I have a question about preflop sizing: At 40:17 you open the btn with 85s for 2.5x 6handed (35bb+- eff) and hand after in the video in the exact same situation you opened ATo for 2.25x, whats the reasoning behind these two different sizings? Also several hands later you minraised, I believe, twice or three times 6 handed from early position, why not use bigger sizing there because you need to have tighter range and you want to extract more value out of your tighter range? Thanks!
the EP minraise allows hero to vpip more. position already signals strong range to villains behind, so no need to size it up. LP steals with larger size such as the 85s generate more preflop fold equity which is desired when playing wide ranges, otherwise vs. minraise BB gets to defend just about everything.
I agree the 85s 2.5x and ATo 2.25x is inconsisent, is there reason or just sloppy? low stakes this would be fine because noone will notice. opposed to 85s, holding as strong of a hand as ATo hero wants BB to come along. however, villain of BBs caliber may actually note the sizings should the hand go to SD and therefore have a read on hero for future situations.
easy to analyse those off the tables with plenty time. not so obvious ingame, esp. with short timebanks. but i guess the more pondering on such topics, the clearer and faster thought process becomes while playing. thinking faster / slowing time, matrix style.
suggestion for future videos: more blind on blind battles. those are the bread and butter spots which build winrate, opposed to entertaining puzzles of crazy situations which don't happen often.
ATo vs 85s:
This one is just sloppy but also right on the cusp and doesn't matter that much. Stacks are something like 42/61/34 in both. If it was something like 32/32/32 then 2.5x would be a mistake and if it was 50/50/50 then 2.5x is probably slightly superior, but all in all I don't think this impacts your EV too much. As long as you're not raising big when stacks are such that you get shoved on a bunch, and not raising too small when you never get shoved on, you're OK.
Later in the video when I am minraising from EP there are shortacks behind me so I expect to get shoved on at a decent frequency, so I minraise.
Couple questions:
At 37:35, you mention AJo is a no brainer call from HJ v 19bb shove out of SB if SB is shoving a normal range. Can you share you thoughts on what range you think SB is shoving and possibly what the payouts are? At first glance, AJo looked too loose to me to be a call and when running it in ICMizer vs a 15% shove range of 22+,ATo+, A2s+, JTs+, the AJo combo is a losing call. Do you see villain shoving much wider? I find at the low and mid stakes that population will shove tighter than this and ICMizer actually suggests a shove range of 88+, AQo+, AJs+ vs a 25% HJ open.
At 53:11, what hands are you looking to bluff with on the turn? Are you waiting for the T7o types with a diamond and using those plus flush draws to bluff?
In the last hand on the river shove with QJo (with a heart), do you think villain is calling all Tx vs the 1.5x pot shove? With such a large sizing it seems like we are isolating ourselves to get called by better, some worse Jx, and the strongest Tx. Is this still enough hands to shove here? We also have the Qh which blocks some of villains auto folds.
At 23 mins you defend 63o and turn 2 pair. Your plan on turn was to check raise? Can you ever lead in this spot? We can block lead oesd here too which probably doesnt want to call a double barrell.
If flop was a63 instead of a86 would you also x/r there? I guess we can bluff that spot with bdfd and gutters.. but because of icm i know.its a mich different situation that chip ev.
As always amazing vids and helpful insights/response
you minraise into a 10bb stack in the BB. ive seen from other instructors that they are using a slightly larger raise sizing to give worse odds to BB to defend, as they can defend so frequently (being able to realize their equity so shortstacked).
what should we consider when deciding opening sizes into a short stacked BB because I've heard conflicting things here, and both thought processes make sense?
I don't know payouts either but will have to guess this is an ICM fold so it is interesting to hear Daniel say slam dunk call. So I think it is a good question which I am also interested in hearing some feedback from Daniel on.
Hello Daniel, very good series and lots of interesting spot. But I do have to admit that I prefer your more theory oriented videos. There are so many HH reviews on runitonce and so little theory oriented ones adapted to MTT's. It makes your pio videos really golden and almost unique. Thank you!
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Great series and would love to see more live play. Also thought it would be interesting to see some more work with the preflop solver like in the defend vs 3bet co vs bb video. Not sure if the solver can do it but would be interesting to see how the most marginal defends do vs pop opening ranges instead of just vs solvers opening ranges.
Thank you!
You can definitely lock in a range for the OOP 3-bet and take a look at the solver response. In my experience if you just play around with the combos that are getting 3-bet but keep value:bluff ratio ~constant the defending ranges are pretty stable and tend to expand a little bit once the 3-bettor is using non optimal combos.
Great video as usual daniel. At 26:30 facing a hj open we have qtss on btn with 27bb. You say we could sometimes rip here. Can we ever have a normal 3bet/call and 3bet/fold rng with 27bb? It seems like this would give us greater flexibility as well as protect our stack rather than just a call or jam strat.
You can definitely have a 3bet/call and 3bet/fold range 27bb deep, but I think that we should have a shoving range as well. A hand like QTs is not a hand that I would want to have as part of my small 3-bet range at these stacks because 3-betting it doesn't accomplish that much (relative to other hands that we can use to bluff with) and we fold a bit more equity than we would want to the times we get 4-bet shoved on.
hello Daniel Dvoress , which hands you would 3bet/fold here with 27bb ?
Your bluffs should come from hands with good blockers that don't lose out on too much equity when they get shoved on and aren't great flats. Stuff like A9o, offsuit broadways that are on the weaker side and I don't want to flat with would be where the majority of my bluffs come from.
the mix of humility, knowledge, self-confidence and passion for the game is just charming.
@35:00 what betsize would you choose should you lead? 7bb?
mentioned you have all the sets and playing check/decide MW with one card to come is troublesome. can't really X/C vs decently sized bet. or can? hard to get paid on rivered flush. X/AI into sets also is unattractive. bet must be the superior play.
Yeah, if I bet I think I'd use a pretty big bet size since I'm betting so polar. Maybe not quite 7b, but something around 2/3rds pot seems intuitively right.
I think we can x/c a decently sized bet - our outs are very clean, we dominate a few FD combos.
one more q: do u have a rule of thumb for such spots? once x/c turn and hit riv flush, if to lead or x/r? on one hand want max value with x/r, other it sucks when villain xback.
will take chance to write ty for earlier 'intuitive gto' video, i've been doing pio research this way ever since saw it.
figured in a spot like when X/C it's not about the implied odds of getting paid on the river as much as simply immediate odds and realising equity of a strong hand. still don't know if filled on river plan should be mostly bet or x/r.
Right, the turn call is more about immediate odds and having a hand that realizes equity well across rivers.
one more q: do u have a rule of thumb for such spots? once x/c turn and hit riv flush, if to lead or x/r? on one hand want max value with x/r, other it sucks when villain xback.
The rule of thumb is to not lead rivers after x/c unless the river somehow drastically improves your overall range compared to your opponents. Generally these situations are very rare, I don't think this is one of them.
Great series overall and would definitely want to see more of this in the future
Thank you!
love all ur vids but do think your theory stuff is a bit better than this style
Thanks! I try to do a balance of theory videos and stuff like this as I find it's a pretty even split with viewer's preferences. Personally I prefer to do theory stuff myself as well :)
Hey, I have a question about preflop sizing: At 40:17 you open the btn with 85s for 2.5x 6handed (35bb+- eff) and hand after in the video in the exact same situation you opened ATo for 2.25x, whats the reasoning behind these two different sizings? Also several hands later you minraised, I believe, twice or three times 6 handed from early position, why not use bigger sizing there because you need to have tighter range and you want to extract more value out of your tighter range? Thanks!
the EP minraise allows hero to vpip more. position already signals strong range to villains behind, so no need to size it up. LP steals with larger size such as the 85s generate more preflop fold equity which is desired when playing wide ranges, otherwise vs. minraise BB gets to defend just about everything.
I agree the 85s 2.5x and ATo 2.25x is inconsisent, is there reason or just sloppy? low stakes this would be fine because noone will notice. opposed to 85s, holding as strong of a hand as ATo hero wants BB to come along. however, villain of BBs caliber may actually note the sizings should the hand go to SD and therefore have a read on hero for future situations.
easy to analyse those off the tables with plenty time. not so obvious ingame, esp. with short timebanks. but i guess the more pondering on such topics, the clearer and faster thought process becomes while playing. thinking faster / slowing time, matrix style.
suggestion for future videos: more blind on blind battles. those are the bread and butter spots which build winrate, opposed to entertaining puzzles of crazy situations which don't happen often.
ATo vs 85s:
This one is just sloppy but also right on the cusp and doesn't matter that much. Stacks are something like 42/61/34 in both. If it was something like 32/32/32 then 2.5x would be a mistake and if it was 50/50/50 then 2.5x is probably slightly superior, but all in all I don't think this impacts your EV too much. As long as you're not raising big when stacks are such that you get shoved on a bunch, and not raising too small when you never get shoved on, you're OK.
Later in the video when I am minraising from EP there are shortacks behind me so I expect to get shoved on at a decent frequency, so I minraise.
Great vid as always!
Couple questions:
At 37:35, you mention AJo is a no brainer call from HJ v 19bb shove out of SB if SB is shoving a normal range. Can you share you thoughts on what range you think SB is shoving and possibly what the payouts are? At first glance, AJo looked too loose to me to be a call and when running it in ICMizer vs a 15% shove range of 22+,ATo+, A2s+, JTs+, the AJo combo is a losing call. Do you see villain shoving much wider? I find at the low and mid stakes that population will shove tighter than this and ICMizer actually suggests a shove range of 88+, AQo+, AJs+ vs a 25% HJ open.
At 53:11, what hands are you looking to bluff with on the turn? Are you waiting for the T7o types with a diamond and using those plus flush draws to bluff?
In the last hand on the river shove with QJo (with a heart), do you think villain is calling all Tx vs the 1.5x pot shove? With such a large sizing it seems like we are isolating ourselves to get called by better, some worse Jx, and the strongest Tx. Is this still enough hands to shove here? We also have the Qh which blocks some of villains auto folds.
Thank you!
At 23 mins you defend 63o and turn 2 pair. Your plan on turn was to check raise? Can you ever lead in this spot? We can block lead oesd here too which probably doesnt want to call a double barrell.
If flop was a63 instead of a86 would you also x/r there? I guess we can bluff that spot with bdfd and gutters.. but because of icm i know.its a mich different situation that chip ev.
As always amazing vids and helpful insights/response
Great series but I prefer your theory videos.
hi @11:18,
you minraise into a 10bb stack in the BB. ive seen from other instructors that they are using a slightly larger raise sizing to give worse odds to BB to defend, as they can defend so frequently (being able to realize their equity so shortstacked).
what should we consider when deciding opening sizes into a short stacked BB because I've heard conflicting things here, and both thought processes make sense?
Ajo at 37 min i know slam dunk gor chip ev but because of the other shorties (20 bb stacks) is this close consodering icm?
I dont have the payouts and would be curious what hrc said
I don't know payouts either but will have to guess this is an ICM fold so it is interesting to hear Daniel say slam dunk call. So I think it is a good question which I am also interested in hearing some feedback from Daniel on.
@32:45
The min raise is preferred here?
Perhaps 2.25-2.5x is better?
Hello Daniel, very good series and lots of interesting spot. But I do have to admit that I prefer your more theory oriented videos. There are so many HH reviews on runitonce and so little theory oriented ones adapted to MTT's. It makes your pio videos really golden and almost unique. Thank you!
Would like to go against the grain and say that I love that you do a steady mix of theory and live play.
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