Sunday $500 (part 2)

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Sunday $500 (part 2)

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James Obst

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Sunday $500 (part 2)

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James Obst

POSTED May 08, 2015

James has a healthy stack to begin the second part of this $500 MTT review and looks to build on it as they approach the money bubble.

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OMHPOZ 9 years, 11 months ago

excellent content, james, thanks for your thoughtful insights of this wonderful and often soo frustrating game :-)

i especially like your thoughts about the A10o hand at 37:00, i see myself calling in this spot fairly often, and now i might not anymore, as it really only makes little sense for jovial to turn his small pairs or suited connectors into bluffs here.

greetings from austria!

wolfy2517 9 years, 11 months ago

ATo vs. Yevgeniy/Jovial...you went into detail with your thoughts on 3b reshipping/flatting/folding but didn't touch on an option that I thought would at least be semi-reasonable in this spot - 3b/folding. Any particular reason(s) why or did it just slip your mind?
I could be wrong, but it seems like a spot where KJo (another reasonable 3b) would play better than ATo as a flat and where ATo blocks a bit more of Yevgeniy's continuing/value range when we 3b (and I thinkkkkk 3b/f is going to be > than a 23bb 3b jam from an EV-standpoint if he's opening a bit narrower here, as you suggested).

Anyways, would love to hear your thoughts. Great video, as always!

James Obst 9 years, 10 months ago

hey sorry I didn't get back to all these questions before now. Yeah, 3b/f is a very viable option and I should have mentioned it if I didn't. The issue is it may be a little too strong for it to be the best line and taking worse Ax may be favourable for that part of the tree (I'm not sure about that though, obviously we can't be 3b/f too often) - I would like to have a flatting range in this situation generally so having various types of hands for board coverage is important. I would definitely endorse this as a 3b/f as part of a no flatting strategy anyway.. and vs this opponent on this table I'm not sure having a flatting range is logical to begin with.

tinyelvis58 9 years, 11 months ago

Great video as always James. Top notch job at articulating your thoughts to the audience.

At 29:30 you mention that 3b/calling w/ JTdd may be the best play against the button. Can you expand upon this a little. Is this just a high variance spot that you may take in a tougher tourney yet pass on in a softer one? Is 3b/calling better than just jamming yourself (so maybe you fold out some of his jamming range such as 22-44,A2-A4s)?

James Obst 9 years, 10 months ago

Thanks mate - in the JTs spot I think people aren't very careful about understanding how they weaken their range by jamming exorbitant sizes when they clearly play their premiums differently. I think if it's correct to play JTs aggressively here preflop it's likely that playing it as though it were AA is the better way to go because it probably has the equity to stand up to a jam and the playability is great in the rare event of a flat call. It means you have a wider r/call range which makes it harder/worse for your opponents to 4b-jam certain hands versus a more polarised strategy. This assumes calling ranges are accurately wide versus big overjams, in which case there really shouldn't be a huge upside to shoving JTs here versus 3b/call. In practice against some opponent types there will be though.

FaceMyAlterEgo 9 years, 9 months ago

Hey James, great video, I really enjoy the in depth analysis, keep it up!
You say that 3bet/calling JTs here as opposed to flatting makes it more difficult for him to jam certain hands, but I would think that the opposite is true, since hands like KTo/QJo,QTs, 22-44, A4s, A8o or K9s should in my oppinion be in a tough spot vs your 3bet. So depolarizing your 3b/call range to an extent that includes JTs should makehis decisions easier in that he can now just jam a very wide and linear range, expecting to be ahead some of the time with a hand as weak as KTo.
In regards to our jaming range being "weak", I don't think that is necessarily the case. Stacks are shallow enough that I would think jamming with AK/AQ/88-JJ is at least reasonably close in ev to 3beting to induce., while also decreasing variance and shifiting more ev to those hands that want to jam.
So I would just jam most of my reraising range, something along the lines off 22+, ATo+, KJo+, 98s+, T9s+, JTs+, QJs+, K9s+ and have just a small 3bet-to-induce range with JJ+ and a portion of AJ+ (favouring the suited combos) and 88-TT, maybe some KQs.

What do you think about that?

chasepoker 9 years, 11 months ago

Great video love the range breakdowns not many coaches go into that much detail. Keep the rambles in they are good. Quality over quantity with your videos is great.

FIVEbetbLUFF 9 years, 11 months ago

really great video.
do you have a flatting range at 13min with QQ? and on river, what are his most efficient river jams given he will be suited a lot and not have relevant blockers to the flush?
at 27min with AT, if u assume he jam a lot of Kx for this size, dont you think it weird to practically turn this into a bluff and bet/fold? if u do that u bet fold TT-QQ? or do you have JJ/QQ cuz it blocks some of his KQ KJ? It seems u may bet/folding a lot here escp if have all combos of AQ as well. Also on river, u happened to win, but against what other hands do you really beat then A8s (which reasonably shud jam flop i think given it needs protection and as shown, can get you to fold better ..since u said u fold TT). these spots are tough overall with these stacks and this pot size

James Obst 9 years, 10 months ago

Thanks! I think from the hijack here it's a bit harder to have a flatting range, on the button I surely would but if I did here it would probably only be an exploitative adjustment. Re. river bluffing, you'd be as good as me at figuring out his best bluff hands! It's going to be one of those bad spots where theory says you should bluff x% but in a game of human vs human theory may be leading you down a suboptimal path.

It doesn't seem weird at all to me to bet/fold TT if I don't have the equity to call, no. If I'm bet/folding "too much" (if he's c/jamming very light) then these hands will become bet/calls. It's a tough situation but I'm confident denying equity and keeping my range uncapped is the way to go with a hand this vulnerable. On the river I think the question is more what hands do I lose to - even the KxXh hands only make a degree of sense here and there's hardly any of those.

Gedis92 9 years, 11 months ago

at 26:45 can you talk more about these relevant factors? I believe that i tend to check too much when I have pocket pair and there is high cards on the board.

Thanks in advance! :)

James Obst 9 years, 10 months ago

hey sure - I think the concept of denying equity is pretty critical. In this example tens has many overcards and backdoor hearts to protect against, so you'd much prefer to bet no heart tens here than QhQx. That's probably the most important factor to be considering and something I try to focus on when I play.

Phil Galfond 9 years, 10 months ago

Hey James,

Great video, as usual! I'm watching in preparation for the 8-max 5k nl tomorrow.

I realize I'm late to the party here so no worries if you don't get back to me (especially during the series).

I find the QQ hand very interesting (you 3b small 22bb effective vs EP who calls - Flop K96r).

I agree with you that we probably want to bet AA on the flop for removal reasons (and the obvious normal reasons), but assuming we have a bit of KQ in our range pre - I much prefer betting KQ and checking most AK. With AK, we have to worry so much less about protection and we'd love to give AQ/AJ the opportunity to turn an ace (or to make an awful bluff on brick turns).

QQ makes a good check and call down because we block KQ so well. JJ/TT I'm not sure what option I like best. Could it possibly be the case that since he may have no AK/AA/KK and you can have all of them, you get to bet the flop small and really frequently?

Like you said, it would be an interesting one to do a CREV analysis on, but neither of us have the time for that this summer :)

See you at the Rio.

James Obst 9 years, 10 months ago

Phil, thanks for helping me out on this hand! Looks like I needed it. I agree with all your analysis and I suspect it's right that we can have a high ratio of "bluffs" vs pure value here and that theory will dictate going with some of them to small check-raises so we can't be exploited.. it's just that in practice it might be hard to pull the trigger. How it leaves our checking range looking and playing on future streets is interesting.. I wonder whether tens should just be played as a check back to give up then (so far I can only see AK, KK and maybe QQ as checks), and maybe TJs, QJs, QTs play best as delayed c-bets if I have them. I'm seeing AQs with bdfd as probably the best bet-3b to prevent exploitation, though it's not many combos.. not sure if our range needs something like QQ to play that way sometimes in theory. I guess unless this bot situation I'm reading about now extends to tournaments, practicality will always override theory when it gets this complex but I'm definitely interested by it. And p.s miss you making NLHE videos. I'm going to stick to the HORSE today :).

xaviterra 8 years, 6 months ago

Great vid!
At 20:45 you say you dont want to jam as we wouldnt be jamming all of our value hands. I ran the hand in holdem resources and it says we're making almost half a bb against his calling range. Was the calling range I gave him to tight or is that edge to thin to take anyway?

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