Street By Street: Functional Approach to Game Theory (Part 1: River Play)

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Street By Street: Functional Approach to Game Theory (Part 1: River Play)

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Krzysztof Slaski

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Street By Street: Functional Approach to Game Theory (Part 1: River Play)

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Krzysztof Slaski

POSTED May 27, 2018

In his debut video, Krzysztof Slaski provides a brief overview of game theory and then dives into some functional hands examples to show you how he thinks about river situations.

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Bazuko 6 years, 9 months ago

Great first video!
I come from a live poker background and your video was a good introduction as to how to approach rivers when I’m trying to construct a balanced range. Looking forward to your next vids.

Electric_Blue 6 years, 9 months ago

Great first video, maybe in the future you could do a quick run over the example hands with pio afterwards too, the last hand for example would be nice to see a summary afterwards of which hands can value bet each street and for each size, and also the blocker effects for our bluffs as IP and bluff catches OOP. I have a feeling the size you used with 98 might be a decent mistake, would you still bet this size if you played the hand again?

Nice video man, i think you did a great job of balancing theory and hand examples, the cardrunners EV toy game was a great way to break it up too.

Krzysztof Slaski 6 years, 9 months ago

Thank you, appreciate it.

I didn't do much of pio for the hands since I was mostly just looking to showcase the methodology, and I was worried about making it too heavy. I go a little deeper into it in the next video, where I am able to build on the theory from this one.

As for the hand, my bet size choice would mostly depend on how much I perceive the bb to be leading and xr turn and river. I was expecting hands which can beat a straight to be pretty limited when he just xc turn; which made me lean towards the overbet. When I unblock all the strong calling hands so well I usually can't help myself and just go big. That being said I did run this through pio just now which spit out this

Pio greatly favored like a 66-75% bet size ott and also a small range bet sizing otf (Something I would have gotten wrong in game for sure, my thoughts were that on a more dynamic board I want to throw some bigger bets in otf) so it doesn't get to the river with many of the 98 combos but a pretty equal split between bet sizes on the river.

Electric_Blue 6 years, 9 months ago

Oh i agree that river is an overbet, i should have been more clear, i just had a feeling that your overbet was far too small on the river and that pio would probably not ever use this size over another if it had options like 1.5x 2x or shove. Thanks for the reply!

domifi 6 years, 9 months ago

great video! exactly the kind of content i was looking for actually, sound theory explained on a few good practical examples, there's a lot to take away from this stuff for me

botboy141 6 years, 9 months ago

Thanks for a great video. Dumbed down for the likes of me which is greatly appreciated, perhaps it wasn't too rudimentary, just really well articulated.

Looking forward to future videos.

theotherguy 6 years, 9 months ago

I thought this was an excellent expansion on the original from Sauce123. Specifically the idea of exploring the difference between using frequency instead of face value to evaluate the effectiveness of a candidate bluffing hand.

I have a very difficult time keeping my full range in mind. Do you have any ideas for improving in this area efficiently? It seems to be the primary prerequisite skill for being able to make these types of evaluations.

Krzysztof Slaski 6 years, 9 months ago

Hi theotherguy

Thanks for the kind words. That is a good question, I think you just need to keep working on it off the table and it will keep getting easier. One thing you can try doing is grouping your hands together into different subsections such as "strong vbets" "weak vbets" "bluffs", that might make your life a little easier.

Cheers.

Everyday 6 years, 9 months ago

enjoyed the video, definitely not too dry and well balanced.
i like the "Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler" approach.

crispy 6 years, 4 months ago

Excellent video, huge fan already!

21:47 - You mentioned that you would shove all-in with your QK+ region and bet smaller with the KJ/KT combos. It makes a lot of sense but isn't it quite exploitable? I guess you are never folding vs a shove, but that seems complicated in itself.

Everyone seems to have an issue with balancing the smaller betsizes, so I'm curious as to how you would approach this spot on the river. Are you having any slowplays in your smaller river sizing or only KT/KJ? Thanks

Krzysztof Slaski 6 years, 4 months ago

Hey,

Appreciate the kind words, thank you.

In this specific spot I don't think there is much our opponent can do to exploit this smaller sizing(Even if we just leave it capped at KJ). The only hand he should really have that would be able to do so is KQ(everything stronger will just be going all-in regardless), and he would need a v.large sample before he has a strong enough read on us to exploit this. Nevertheless if a case does arise where our opponent starts raising our smaller bets super light as an exploit, we can now move our strong value bets from the large to the small bet size. Since our opponent is very aggressive vs our small bet these hands won't be losing any EV, and will probably be gaining some as they still stack all the good hands+now the bluffs. We can basically keep moving strong hands into the smaller betting range until the point where they are equal EV to a large bet size (the point where our opponent realizes he can no longer raise super light vs that range)

Cheers.

moosedeer17 6 years, 2 months ago

Hi Krzysztof,

great video, thank you.

@24:51 you say I think what end's up happening here is we bet at a very high frequency of our hands that dont have showdown value due to all the value combos we have....

Does this mean with the range we theoretically get to in this spot (with your range assumptions up to this point in the hand being constant), we should be shoving (or betting small) with pretty much our entire range due to there being too many value combos and not enough bluffs? or does this mean there are still some give ups? If there are still some giveups could you give some info on how we can find the best combos to give up with?

thanks

Krzysztof Slaski 6 years, 2 months ago

Hey,

Yeah basically we want to give our opponent incentive to call us with hands that lose to our value bets, and if we don't bet with enough weak stuff he will just fold everything. Assuming we constructed our turn range well this shouldn't really be a river where we need to bet everything we have, but we should be aware that nearly all hands we get here with will be a high frequency bet.

In an unlikely situation where we don't actually have enough bluffs for our value bets, we would bet at a 100% frequency and our opponent will fold every one of his bluffcatchers. This way our showdown value hands will pick up the whole pot(which in a theoretically correct poker is the most you can ever win), instead of the portion of if that they would if they check back. This doesn't seem like a great scenario, since our value bets never get called, but it's actually pretty awesome since our opponent won't call hands that don't at least break even anyway. So in reality we get to win the whole pot every time, instead of a portion of it.

nyantani 6 years ago

Great video!

To start explaining about river spot as the 1st one definitely shows you are a great teacher.
In addition, using Pio is a common and easy way to talk about these things, but you focus on the ways you think through, which also implies your greatness.

I hope you will keep posting.
Thank you:)

Shekhar 6 years ago

Excellent video !
At 34:10 , while discussion bluffing you mentioned we should prefer to bluff with an 8 or 9 in our hand, to block our oppinents best bluffcatchers but my doubt is how are those hands the best bluffcatchers when they block the only way we find bluffs as well? How should be go about spots like these.

Krzysztof Slaski 6 years ago

Hey Shekhar

That's a really good and perceptive question. What you should keep in mind is that when we design optimal ranges both players are omniscient, so they see each others strategies. The bettor designs his bluffing range based on what the best bluffcatchers are for his opponent, so if the opponent decides to bluffcatch with hands that seemingly don't block anything, the bettor will just shift his bluffs to block those hands anyway, and what ends up happening is the caller still blocks the bluffs, but now blocks no value. It would be an incredibly rare situation for the caller to be able come up with a strategy where he only blocks value bets and never blocks bluffs, because the bettor chooses his bluffs with the callers strategy in mind. Basically it would have to be a spot where the bettor has no potential bluffs that block the bluffcatchers.

These 2 strategies will converge at a point where the caller has no incentive to change his bluffcatchers because it will give the bettor an opportunity to increase his EV, and that point will be where he blocks the largest number of value bets(which should make sense).

Cheers

Shekhar 6 years ago

I guess the conclusion is, the guy bluffing can always change his blockers for bluffing, so as a caller it's more important to block his value hands? Thanks Krzysztof, brilliant explanation.

OMGIsildurrrrman12 5 years, 4 months ago

Hi, Krzysztof Slaski - I was introduced to you via your live-play videos and just stumbled upon your theory videos today. I am definitely looking forward to consuming all of your content. One concept I'm not quite getting is around @12:30 you mention that if the bettor is slightly underbluffing then the potential caller never calls with his bluff catcher. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this. Wouldn't the potential caller's response be to simply call less often with his bluff catcher as opposed to never? Based on what I've typed so far, I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but could you help clarify this for me? Thank you!

Krzysztof Slaski 5 years, 4 months ago

Hey,

By definition a "bluffcatcher" is a hand that is 0 EV against a balanced range, meaning it is indifferent between calling and folding(it's not making money either way), therefore if we just take away 1 of the bluffing combos the scale tips and all the bluffcatchers become -EV, the fold option is obviously still 0 EV, so we fold them all.

That being said this is a heavily theoretical explanation of the situation. In reality there are blockers in play and other variables such as your opponent adjusting to you grossly overfolding, so if one players bluffing region is just slightly short it's going to look more like what you're describing. Nevertheless though that only applies to a minor lack of bluffing combos. We will hit a point where all these other variables are just not worth taking the -EV call and we start folding everything again ;)

Cheers, and thanks for all the kind comments.

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