A Session Review I Couldn't Resist: whiteshark
Posted by Steve Paul
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Great video as usual!! You discussed the advantages of playing deep against weaker players. It would be nice to see a video where you compare/contrast some of the significant differences between playing 100bb vs. 150bb-200bb?
I would very much appreciate such a video. I heard Matt Berkey say in a podcast once that the deeper you get, the more room there is for detrimental mistakes (often in overplaying hands) that you can capitalize on if you know the spots to look out for. Would make a great video.
whiteshark Great progress on your game! You have put in a lot of work over the past few months. Keep it going!
10:15 T#2 Just jam river and rep the back door flush. Blockers don't even matter as people are going to fold 90% of their range here.
23min the turn should be smaller size or check. You are making it too easy on Tx/9x hands with this turn barrel.
There was another AcTc hand SB vs CO 3BP on 642r (no club) where you cbet half pot. As Steve showed a lot of your club hands can just XF here. If you are going to bet, I would just go 1/3 as an exploit. Easy to check your club hands if you balance it with checking some over pairs.
I would say you are probably over cbetting on the flop, not bluff catching river enough i.e the 77 on J64QJ board, and also when you do bluff it seems to be on the smaller size. Just simplify it to if you have weak sdv, just bluff for a medium - large size.
Hey RunItTw1ce. Having had a lot of experience with population tendencies in microstakes Zoom, I think some of your assumptions are pretty reckless. Opponents in these games love slowplaying big hands. I have played against the specific opponent in this hand myself. He can easily have any set when he
takes this line, and he's turbo snap-calling a river jam.
Also, bluffcatching 77 on J64QJ is burning money against most regulars in this pool. He's not turning 6x or 4x into a bluff, as opponents generally just don't turn SDV into bluffs in this pool. A lot of regulars won't even value bet a Q on this river. Expect to run into trips and boats a lot when you bluffcatch here with 77.
I think this is a common misconception in lower stakes pools - that they don't bluff enough. There are some situations where this is largely correct. But in spots where ranges are wide you'll often find the opposite is true. One of the main reasons is exactly what you say, they tend not to value bet thinly enough. If someone a) has lots of possible bluffs and b) doesn't value bet thinly enough then it is extremely hard not to overbluff.
Steve Paul great point about their betting frequency being out of balanced and leaning toward bluffs. They also do some random spazz stuff and turn pairs into bluffs when it doesn’t make any sense.
HodorIsKing
The 77 hand at 35min mark we are discussing, who said 6x was being turned into a bluff? I think this is a misconception on what is considered value vs what is considered a bluff. One of the reasons, myself included in this btw, is low stakes players don't know how to value bet correctly! I checked on wizard and there are some hands like 9h6h actually betting this river for the 1/3 or smaller size. The reason is because IP hero is supposed to call with some Ace high hands, so 6x actually becomes value. Some hands like AK/AT have to call the river because they unblock hands that floated the flop i.e 87s 75s etc. 77 for whiteshark specific suits actually folds quite a bit, but I think this would be a mistake as Steve Paul pointed out. The pool will turn random 4x or 6x into value bets and I'm 100% sure if pool has JX or a flush they tend to NOT use the small 1/4 size on the river. The big bets tend to rep big hands and small bets tend to rep thin value bets.
Here is BB's betting range on the river after hero goes 2.5x pre, 1/3 flop, and xx turn. There is not a lot of 6x and 4x betting, but as RoleTide said pool will random spazz with these hands, mostly betting because they don't want to XC a bigger bet, so they choose a size that makes sense to them. But look at the Ace high, king high, and other trash hands that are betting on this river. Those a lone should be enough to make 77 close to a pure call here without having to worry about your suits.
The other big misconception people have here is trying to beat opponents value range at an equal ratio. Hero has to call 2.4 to win 8.32, which means he only needs to be right 1 out of 5 times to show a profit. Do you think BB won't bet 6x, K-high, or A-high 20% of the time HodorIsKing ?
Hero's range facing the 27% river bet.
First of all thanks a lot for reviewing my footage again and the couple of kind words throughout the session. I would have loved a take on my "funky opening sizes", but I get that the EVs between different opening strategies are close and it's probably not worth spending too much time on it. That said, while I'm aware that the EVs are close versus the solver, I do think that there is room for quite some extra EV to be generated when playing versus erring humans.
I agree with almost all of your takes throughout the video. My main take aways from this video (also considering RunItTw1ce's comments) are:
I c-bet too much. Probably best shown by the AcTc hand at 29:45 that you pointed out. I do try to take these broadways that have overcards but will unblock all (backdoor) flush draw folds on later streets into my c-betting range as our range needs these low equity bluffs on all kinds of runouts. But this should be for a low frequency OTF and in the video I overdid it.
I don't call enough vs. small bets in spots where ranges are wide. My rationale in the JcTd hand at 10:40 was that the Jc blocks the missed flush draws and I'd rather call hands without a club, but probably this is not enough to justify a (pure) fold. The fold with 77 at 34:55 was definitely too much.
I put in too much money versus strong ranges with mediocre hands. This showed in the 4-bet pot with AQo at 5:00 both pre and OTF as well as at 38:15 where I'm also not sure where the XR with 87o on AT5r vs. a recreational in UTG came from haha.
Thanks again and I'm looking forward to your review in January 2023 on (at least) NL50! ;-)
Would focus heavily on continue ranges as the defender. The 77 you mentioned above as well as the JT, but also the QJ on the 98xx board where you called a small overbet on the turn for a gutter and 2 overs. Steve showed it was a continue at some frequency but should be close to a pure fold vs the pool. I would just look at wizard's filters to see what ranges it continues with on flop, turn, and river and pay close attention to the suits.
RunItTw1ce thanks for your advice, will do.
Great video.
4:27 right table at I like a river overbet bluff or xr bluff.
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