6 Table $.50/$1 Deep Ante PLO (part 2)
Posted by Sam Lang
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wow sick action. i used to play NLHE and this video does nothing to make me want to go back to no limit
good video, nice insights into playing LAGs with deep stacks.
which style is more profitable overall?
a) flatting an open raise or three bet pre flop and trying to outplay and exploit someone like pokergod post flop or
b) pushing your (small) edge preflop (like you do in much of the video) by three and four betting against villain's wide opening and three betting ranges?
the reason i ask is that the edges pre flop are so small.. it seems like you're flipping coins much of the time. there was at one point when you five bet against villain's 25% (!) 4-bet range with AKxx double suited and you are only about a 53/47 favorite.
hey man, thanks for the reply!
for the most part I think it comes down to personal style and preference. both are going to be profitable. for me, I am happy playing lots of big pots in that it doesn't affect me emotionally that much, I enjoy stacking off a lot and the dynamics it creates. I am confident I am a lot better than the majority of my opponents at playing lots of big pots with mediocre holdings where they may be uncomfortable and start making mistakes. also these opponents are very prone to tilt and playing worse when stuck, so playing a high variance style increases the chances of this happening, where when we lose hands it won't affect us as much. If we are affected negatively by losing lots of pots and are not confident in deepstack situations with some speculative hands then I would say flatting would be better.
with regards to the ak** hand, whilst it may be only a small equity edge, there is something to be said about having the initiative; when we call the 4b we will be c/f equity a bunch postflop as well as playing OOP, however when we 5b we will often force him to fold equity postflop, and negate his positional advantage thus making fewer postflop mistakes. If we were in position I would probably flat most of the time.
enjoyed both parts, great stuff. basically, never thought playing that laggish could be profitable and yeah, feels like i do understand nothing in deep plo =\
"easy value shove" at 5.30 still feels like kind of mad stuff.
logic during hand analysis was great, so waiting on more 6max deep tables vids from you
Great vid. I always seem to learn a few things from your play. Keep it coming!
sam- great vid, loved the discussion on x-raise/call/folding in 3bet pots on some board textures, ive been playing in a live very passive game and need to re insert this into my playing style ahead of the series. a few spots i had questions on:
1. qt82dbl (hand 1, table 3)- you say on turn you don't have a bet folding range on turn, but on flop you're saying you can bluff raise some bare fds, the only way this makes sense is you are checking back those bare fds on turn, is that a logical conclusion? are you checking back 67ss? if you bluff raise flop?
2. qq94dbl (37min)- you say your xr going with it? thoughts on putting it in xrf range? i don't see us doing well vs anything going with it on the flop, isn't anything that were doing well v calling the xr and not jamming?
its a rough sim, but it can be seen here: http://propokertools.com/simulations/show?b=9s4s5h&g=oh&h1=QcQh9h4c&h2=%2899%2C+44%2C+55%2C+95%2C+94+%3A+ss%2C+467%3A+ss%2C+567%3A+ss%2C+678+%3A+ss%2C+367+%3A+ss%2C+236+%3A+ss%2C+a23%3A+ss%2C+4567%2C+9467%2C+9567%29+%3A45%25+%21+10%25&s=generic
im trying to work w/ ppt to give it a weighted range, right now thats the best i can do, im new to the syntax, maybe im making him an overly tight range, taking him up to 4betting 15% only gives us 26.13% (taking out 44 gives 26.33%) so given the nature of our hand and the board, it seems to be a xrf, and not a hand to xr go with.
3. (akkx) (40min) you you say you're going w/ it if 6-bet here, i understand we have the A blocker, but i don't see anyone at 100 plo having a non AA v heavy (only?!) 6-bet range and i would be folding this. hes called your 5 bets before and hasn't shown up w/ a 6-betting range yet, so i assume hes only 6 betting AA so far, maybe you have other history with him?
4. k9t7 (44min)- thoughts on non pot sized xr on turn? i know were not folding, and you don't think hes folding to a xr, is he raising any hands you're beating? i feel pot xr is too committing and doesn't allow for much balance, letting him get it in really bad. or does he peel so light its just missing value?
Hey man, glad you enjoyed the vid and some more good questions!
1) yea for the post part hand that I am betting have a fair ammount of equity and I will pot call and my weaker hands that I bluffraised flop I will go ahead and x back turn. A fair ammount of flop bluffraising hands that would fold to a 3b still have enough combined equity+fold equity to go ahead and potcall turn though.
2) we pretty much always have the best made hand, very few sets or 95 comboes, and we have a q redraw if so, so we're always doing okay although can def. be behind some draws. as stacks get depper c/r going with it becomes worse, but when we c/pot spr is <1 so we can't really c/pot fold. reason I c/pot is that playing turns OOP on such a draw heavy board is difficult, and c/potting sets up spr so that we can pot non draw completing turns. when we get it in I don't expect us to be doing great, maybe 40-45%, your sim is way off there's a bunch of fds+pair type hands that we're flipping vs and he has 95 or better made hands in his range comparably. also if he bet/folds and we take down the pot, getting a bet out of him and avoiding tough turn spots, that is a very good outcome for us and more than makes up the equity disadvantage when we get it in.
3) it is BvB, we have 3b and he has 4bet. his 4bing range here is extremely wide given the dynamics and being BvB, and with stacks I would never 5b fold as we only need ~35% which I think we easily have given I think he will 6b some premium akqjds etc. some of the time. vs 99% of the player pool I agree but with the dynamics 3 handed BvB I am not gonna be folding to this players 6bet with this hand.
4) I agree with you and think x/pot turn was a mistake. Think I did it for range purposes of me not really having a c/r fold range here so thought I may as well pot it with my range, however this is a mistake vs weaker players who are not thinking in these terms, and in hindsight I think a smaller c/r size to induce or keep in hands we dominate is better
to you're part 2 comment about my range far off: i was attempting to replicate his stack off range, not his current range. i dont understand your logic of "when we c/pot and spr <1, we cant really fold." the x/r/f range is perfect when your equity vs his jamming range is less than 33% (or whatever equity is required to call): ive enlarged his range quite a bit covering more what you said, but a lot of 1 pair and draws will be in his bet/call range, not his 3 get it in range: Here : so we've increased our equity ~1.5% but are still not near the threshold to x/r/c imo.
i completely understand the reasons you're check raising, its you're decision to call if jammed on im disagreeing with. i really dont see just 9x+fd 3bet jamming the flop
edit: i saw i missed some NFD+gs, i do think these are going to be over weighted slightly given pre flop requirements. new range is muuuch closer (added some SDV) (and probably fine w going with). i still think the impact of some of the new hands hands are slightly over emphasized because some may call flop, get it in on any non pairing turn given the perception of 0 FE. so we are narrowing down to a much closer spot
Hi Sam, I think it would be an interesting video if you talked about how you play your AAXX in 3bet/4bet/5bet pot either theory wise or example based (i.e. HEM). And how to play them on monotone boards, 89t boards, etc...
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