6 Table $.50/$1 Deep Ante PLO (part 1)
Posted by Sam Lang
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Having said all this, there can definitely be some flow/position/stacksize orientated reasoning to declining some slightly profitable vacuum plays. I presume there was some game flow reasoning for folding where I expected to get 3bet a bunch, given that the villains were stuck/tilted I didn't want to play a bunch of big pots with mediocre hands here and chose to tighten my opening range where villains were not adjusting there 3b% to my btn open%. the reason for this stems largely from a psychological perspective where I think after winning a large pot these opponents will make less poor 3bets/bad plays in general and the momentum will swing in there way. by not opening this hand and just playing more premium hands where I am going to win a larger majority of the big hands played, I am going to keep the momentum more often and increase the likelihood that these opponents will continue on their downward spiral. this is obviously not relevant vs very solid regs who are not affected nearly as much by winning or losing hands, however I feel that these players make a lot more of their decisions based on emotions rather than any sort of gameplan. similarly there is reasons to decline a close spot based on positions and stacks; when we have a good, deep player to our left, looking at future situations, if we play more close spots we are more likely to double up and will then have a tough time playing deep OOP. the converse is also true if there is a poor deep player to our right, we should be more willing to gamble it up and play high variance so we can double up and have profitable situations later on.
this is all very subjective and dependent on the specific situation, but I hope it can give some insight on why we shouldn't have a static way of playing and thinking such that we are always playing the same ranges in each position regardless of other factors. a256hh is a fine hand to be opening from the button and I will do so in most cases, especially at 100bbs 6max tables, my opponents would have to be 3bing an insanely high% for me to not open this, but in some situations, especially at deep shorthanded play where there is a bunch of other variables to consider, folding is sometimes a preferred option
Thanks, that was a bit longer than expected :P
The other hand where you have the KKQ9 on the A39hh board was also a spot where I think many players simply call the raise and C/F turn blanks. My question is does your logic change when you just have:
1) The nut flush draw but a worse pair (say your hand is KQJ9, so you still have middle pair)
2) The nut flush draw with no pair at all?
If your read is that he doesn't have top set and the best hand he reasonably has is A3 or A9 here (and you block an A9 combo) is this a play you're routinely making against all types of villains or only ones as wide as the villain in this particular hand (where as you said he was stacking off absurdly light here and might do so with something like 24xx with hearts)
Thanks.
as to your first point regarding the kqqj hand, I agree this is something that is lost on some lower stakes players, the idea of checking our strong hands in 3b pots on boards that don't hit our range. not only is it great for our range to be chk/raising some of the time to protect for the times we chk/fold, but it is also most likely the best vacuum play. one thing to be aware of though as to not missaply this concept is to be thinking of how a board connects with our 3bing range and then adjusting the frequencies at which we want to be betting, chk folding and chk raising, and even chk calling in some situations. the reason this is a good board to chk/raise is that we don't want to be cbetting this board with a high % of our 3betting range as it will put us in tough spots; our opponent hits this board much more than us and when we cbet our opponent can use his position much more effectively. chking a lot of our range in these spots means we are not going to face nearly as tough situations on future streets as we negate his positional advantage, and also if we c/pot with alot of hands that flop reasonable equity opponents can't just go silly and bet all the time when we chk in 3b pots, so we will get to realise our equity more frequently when we chk our mediocre hands after he chks back the flop. on boards that smash our range though we should still be cbetting a lot, and boards in between we should vary the frequencies at which we check and cbet with a somewhat balanced range, or with an exploitative gameplan if we notice tendencies in our opponents, ie chking strong hands if they stab alot in 3b pots, and cbetting strong hands if they are more passive, peel very wide and will chk back more often
as to the second hand, 9jqk+nfd I would still be extremely happy 3bing and getting it in on the flop vs this opponent. vs players who don't have much of a bluffing range I may call and evaluate turns, but I still think 3bing flop is a viable option. with a dry nut flush draw I would not be very happy 3bing flop. both kq99 and 9jqk have further outs in the form a 9, q and some backdoor straight equity, however a dry nut flush draw doesn't do nearly as well and I don't think most villains are bluffing flop enough to justify 3bing, although in some situations with certain dynamics I may do, so this is somewhat situation/gameflow dependent. if they have a bluffing range with weak fds that are folding to a 3b and not barreling turns, calling is far superior than 3bing flop, with plans of bluffing rivers if turn chks through. if they are bluffing a lot and following up on turn, jamming flop is an option. if they have a very narrow and value orientated flop raising range on this board, which I imagine vs a pf 3ber most villains raising range here is pretty strong, I would just fold as we don't have much playability and are just going to be chl/folding a bunch of turns, and not extracting enough value when we do hit a flush
Keep it up and best of luck at the tables...
sam- great video as usual- couple of spots:
12.45 (K(t89))- you say you dont like xr turn given he xb flop because you'd have to fold to a 3bet and be folding a lot of equity. but earlier you said "given his xb on flop, you always expect your fd to be live". these two thoughts are incongruent and given the agro dynamic id be happily x/r-calling off as by your estimation you have 13 outs at least, not to mention hes agro and would be cbetting a lot of air so hes got some weak SD value (weak ops/weak tp) and will probably try to end the hand on the turn, giving you loads of FE. is there some deeper reason you dont like a xr? you dont have much SD value currently? or is he checking back a lot of hands a xr would fold and calling them on a lot of blank rivers? river lead 72? instead of xc?
35,00 (j987) turn spr ~1.8-1.9 i was reading on 2p2 pot/cal no longer best std w/ whole range once spr >1.7ish?! and its better to divide into 2 ranges, thoughts on applicable sizings? where would this fit in (i assume still pot/call this hand), but if you have a second range what does it look like? possible sizings?
37.00 (at77) you say xc flop w/ blockers isnt an option? you still believe this? esp deep, given board texture (9t vs 78)? given our bdfd i find waiting til turn risks less given were oop, or do you feel flatting is much better IP than oop here?
overall given your lack of appreciation for chazz's game, thoughts on open limping 3 handed in the sb given his 3betting frequencies? i know its lower variance, but meta-ly i dont believe you need to engage in high variance, spots vs him oop. he seems straight forward, so unless hes making huge mistakes like "ipokergod" i dont see a need to bloat pots oop, and even the huge first pot w/ ipoker, you were IP --- edit: maybe not open limping our entire range but inserting a large open limping oop range vs him? (i find it hard to say in many spots our EV of opening and calling or 4betting v often is going to be all that much greater than, if at all, vs limping into him.
hey man, cheers for the reply, some good questions!
as to the first hand with k89t, x/r is definitely an option with certain dynamics esp if he will b/f dry overpair type hands. as to the the flush inconsistencies this is somewhat true, but I think there are some j, q and perhaps a few khi fd comboes he is chking back so having a thi fd is considerably weaker than in the previous situation. river is close and I'd def vbet sometimes vs this player.
This is very true on certain lockdowny boards, eg montone flops or very dry 22t boards etc where we want to be having a b/f range and a b/get it in range we should never be potting it with 1.8ish spr. however in this spot after c/ring flop, I am never b/fing the turn given the wet texture and given my flop c.r range all still has enough equity to b/c, so in spots that we don't really have a b/f range there is no need to go smaller as it doesn't accomplish a whole lot and I feel potting our whole betting range is fine on this board with the low spr. if turn paired the board that would be a different sitation and we can go smaller and have a b/f and b/c range.
x/c x/r is a fine option to do, and I take passive lines with blockers a lot IP, however OOP vs these players i/ am c/r most of my 78 comboes so with blockers I want to be doing the same thing. would c/c c/r sometimes vs decent players with 78, and as a bluff with a hand like jq* that couldn't c/c turn, however OOP for the most part I would prefer to take the initiative and c/r this board, as a lot of the time the board changes so much on turns and they have a chance of chking back and seeing a river, so our bluff isn't going to work as much on future streets whereas I think it will have a very high frequency of just winning the pot outright by c/r flop
I have started incorporating a limping range vs good players BvB, however vs these players who I think are somewhat weak I am happy playing pots OOP as they are making so many mistakes, so would rather bloat the pot even if I am getting 3b a lot to keep up aggro dynamics and just to play a lot of big pots, partly because it's fun and I enjoy it, and also their postflop mistakes are amplified when we are playing lots of big pots.
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