$109 Turbo Review

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$109 Turbo Review

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Sam Grafton

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$109 Turbo Review

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Sam Grafton

POSTED Oct 16, 2014

Sam reviews a recent $109 Turbo on Stars, quickly going through the early stages before going in-depth on the final table.

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Rapha Nogueira 10 years, 5 months ago

good turbo video! not just showing how well you ran :D

30:17 doesnt open jam plays better than r/f ? alstein should be calling QQ+! and A5s is way too good ever lay down at this stack depth I guess. 

Sam Grafton 10 years, 4 months ago

I think when we see that he is gonna peel JTs a shove is waaay the best option. Against some opponents raise and fold will be optimal though.

Thanks for the question. Glad you liked the video.

pierrehusson 10 years, 5 months ago

at 38, I quite dont like your call with A2 vs the SB open shove. He had been playing super tight the whole final table, making some 3x open once in a while but that´s it. I think I would prefer folding and taking the low variance route.

Sam Grafton 10 years, 4 months ago

Hey pal. Great that RIO subscribers scrutinise these videos so hard. Checked the maths and it does seem A2 is a fold we should be calling 44+, A8o+, A6s+

Thanks for pointing this out to myself and subscribers.

JerseyGrinder23 10 years, 5 months ago

Good stuff, nice win!

Interesting to hear how you play turbos, very interesting strategy.  I have been changing up my style based on your videos, has been helping.  Do you think on the k3 hand it would be better to raise around 2.5x-3x and then fold if they shove?  Or should there still be constant ICM pressure and shoves with a wide range of hands on the button?  Looking back would you still shove k3os there? Also interesting spot with the 76s hand.  I think I would call there... have 4.6-1 odds, villain is deep stacked, possibly have implied odds(I'm sure you had some reads though that made the implied odds small on this hand).  If it was a loose spewy player think you always have to call there though, perhaps against a solid tight reg its an easy fold(no implied odds).  

Sam Grafton 10 years, 4 months ago

Glad you like the vid pal. Think is a real sign of confidence and playing well when instead of shoving you find those spots in a turbo where you raise and then fold something which you could profitably jam. Defo think that a FT bubble is an inflexion point in the tournament where people are playing straight-forwardly so it could well be the better option.

JerseyGrinder23 10 years, 4 months ago

Interesting. Do you think that small EV+ spots like that should be taken in a turbo tournament? Lets say there is a spot where it is around .02% EV to shove. Is that too small of an edge to be risking a large chunk of chips? Should there be a minimum EV that should be taken in those spots(.04% etc)?

PolacoAgresivo 10 years, 5 months ago

Hi Sam, awesome video, fast paced, lots of information !!

18:30 - when you shove p0cket00 with 57s and say "any two cards here", do you really mean any two cards? You are shoving 17,5 BB effective, into a good player that as we saw is calling pretty accurate.

39:10 - A2 seems to me like a snap fold you are the chip leader with plenty of chips, but there is still a lot of ICM consideration. Not sure what range you give him but there really isn't too many reasons for him to shove super light and A2o just doesn't have enough equity.

With a healthy stack like yours there is still a lot of room for getting good icm spots even if the other stacks are 12 an 16,5 bb. We can shove the Button pretty wide if sb is on the tighter side (we're talking into consideration if we fold the button how often does the sb shove).

Acording to ICMIZER 

If sb shoves around 35% when folded to him, we can shove as much as 82% from the button and show profit.

If sb shoves around 65%, we shove 48% of hands from button, and auto profit on the spots when he gets called down.

If sb shoves 100%, we can only shove 19% of hands from the button!

There is a few more factors we should take into consideration like BB calling range etc.. but these numbers are just a simulation showing how much our shoving range should change depending on the tendencies of the short stacks, and that being the chip leader is a luxury in its own, meaning we often make money folding, holding back not playing hands. The FGS - future game simulation is I think limited to 5 hands (not sure to how much hands), but if I'm thinking correctly the more future hands it would take into consideration the more we would have to fold out of our shoving range, with short stacks being loose, because there would be more and more auto profit spots? Am I understanding this correctly?

Whats your take on this Sam? 

JerseyGrinder23 10 years, 5 months ago

Been using ICM myself.  Usually I just plug in numbers for their calling ranges.  Don't have a good understanding on the what exactly is overcall range?  If we shove why would we need to know their overcall range?  Wouldn't we only be interested in their calling range?

Also make sure to adjust the calling ranges based on how opponents perceive you, and adjust to you.  I was making some profitable plays against regs shoving around 40% of hands, then they caught on.  They adjusted their calling ranges, and I was making non-profitable plays.  So just be aware that pushing 40% of hands might be profitable one day, but opponents will catch on.  Always have to tweak pushing/calling ranges. 

Sam Grafton 10 years, 4 months ago

Hey bro, Sorry for the delay in posting. So regarding 75dd at 18.30 I ran the numbers and seems like we can jam any two. Would prob fold very worst hands against Pocket00 but actually thing a good player gonna know he has to fold here more than a bad player.

Sam Grafton 10 years, 4 months ago

Looked at the A2o and it's definitely a fold. I agree that the huge EV we have in future push-fold spots increases the EV of folding. Thanks for pointing this out in such an explicit manner.

PolacoAgresivo 10 years, 4 months ago

Hey Sam, thanks for replying,
I see you have Pocket's calling range at 2,7% do you believe this is the range he will be calling with? Is this the range you would be calling with in his spot?
I don't see myself ever folding to an aggressive player - AJo ATs 77+
and that's 7,5%.

Sam Grafton 10 years, 4 months ago

As shown by what he calls by what Pocket00 calls with a lot of players are calling with the range you outline. But if you or I are in Pocket00's position we should be calling with the range ICMizer recommends.

PolacoAgresivo 10 years, 5 months ago

Hi Jersey,

Overcall ranges are ranges for opponents against Hero push and a call, 

so to demonstrate: if hero shoves the BTN, SB calls, the BB range of Calling at this moment is the overcalling range.

lets use an example 

Main ranges (calling ranges)

Hero push 82%

SB calls 11%

if SB folds, BB calls 7,5%

(If i had to guess this is where you made the mistake, you probably thought that BB calls 7,5%, and SB action doesn't change his range)


Overcall ranges

(To enter overcall ranges we need to click the tab, Overcall ranges)

Hero push 82%

SB call 11%

if SB calls, BB overcalls 8,6%


"Why would we need to know their overcall range? Wouldn't we only be interested in their calling range?"

Now that you understand what overcalling is you probably already understand why we need to know the overcalling ranges, as we need all the ranges of all the actions, to calculate if our shove is profitable.


Balázs Ujvári 10 years, 4 months ago

Hey!
I enjoyed your video very much and congrat to victory!
I have a few remark( sorry my english is not the best:)

I am pretty sure K3 shove on the button is lose, even with ICM considerations.
May be the best play would be a 2-2.5 raise, and folding to pocket00's shove and calling the BB.

"As shown by what he calls by what Pocket00 calls with a lot of players are calling with the range you outline. But if you or I are in Pocket00's position we should be calling with the range ICMizer recommends."

It is not quite true, when you know players like him playing under nash you should consider he's play have a reverse effect on your range, and profit.
K3 is a breakeven push (and probably not the most profitable way to play+increase variance) if we presume they will calling ranges what's would be perfect mathematically, but its actually never happening, and you know pocket00's calling tendencies are lighter than the perfect, your bottom part of your pushing range will be huge -EV because of that.( both of you -EV)
I'm highly prefer raise folding there to him, K3 and a few percent of my range from the bottom.
He wont be so light to exploit you,(bigblind too, but you would have an odds call anyway) and you can decrease variance.

You squeezed with tens in a spot, where you mentioned you can get away your hand if BB shove, and the firstraiser reshove to you. It's probably a good idea, you look very strong on that spot anyway.
Next time you flatted with 88's and also mentioned, you would folding to SB if he shove+3x flat looks super strong. I can argue with that.
1., You thought the fishy's rest of chips getting in anyway, but it is not 100percent because he is a fish as we saw.
2. and shove 88 there is better imo, in that case SB cant call with AQ, AKo maybe 99 even with 1010 ( I dont calculate it but these hands seems to me fold in that spot where a lot of shortys out there)
but this way he could easily reshove those hands or at least flatting with them(even flatting with more KJs KQs, AJs:) a decent amount of time. I don't think we have to worry about he will have an over pair.
And a bit later you open shove 88 5handed but it seems to me a bit like 1010 squeeze spot earlier. Here you could get away your hand if sby 3bet and after sby else 4betting you but you didnt mention the same thing like before. Nothings wrong with openshove because of ICM (I prefer raising there, 88 is a very strong hand 5 handed) I just spot this little inconsequent way of thinking :))

On 4 handed, may be K5s is profitable shove, or at least a 3bet fold, opponent first raise a lot, huge-huge ICM effect on opponent. I think we cant miss out that spot.

I missed an openraise with an Ax but a few hands after you open raising 4handed a low suited connector. It seems to me a little bit illogical too. Probably the same category, I mean you couldn't call allin with either hands, but at least you have a blocker with Ace blablabla, I dont want to bore you with that :)

In HU, with Q6o raisefolding or limping is profitable than the push.
Limping with 92o is >> than fold
A3s hand is interesting, I dont think we can get away from it in times like peoples can raise folding from 10bb easily, but yes a little bit weird spot and shady
maybe I would leveled myself in that spot too

please respond to my remark, I am interested in your opinion about it

Sam Grafton 10 years, 4 months ago

Hey bro. Sorry I haven't got back to you. My database is playing up and I wanted to do some maths for you but can't retrieve the HH to plug into ICMizer.

Essentially your 100% right tho - if villain is calling wider than nash then we need to adjust our ranges otherwise we both lose dollars. I think that's why there has been so many responses to this particular hand. Because it's a spot where shoving 'optimally' is definitely not correct. We need a way tighter range. Pocket00 is defo one of the best so if he's calling with A8 we can expect other regs to be being even more stubborn with their ranges and perhaps calling closer to cEV than correct ICM callling ranges.

Thanks for the engagement. I'll try and find the HH and play around with Pocket00 range.

SwissDollars 9 years, 11 months ago

@2:00 "we have the best hand nearly always":
what about AK, AQ, A3s, QQ, 33 that is part of his range? i'm wondering if you can give further thoughts here as I'd rarely myself raise turn here fearing of being dominated by AK/AQ or called by better. Also I'd doubt vilain 2-barell with his Qx here. thanks sam, great stuff

Sam Grafton 9 years, 11 months ago

I agree. This hand is a little 'fruity.' I definitely overstate how comfortable a spot we're in, although i at least warn that i wouldn't check raise vs a non-regular.

Thanks for drawing attention to the spot.

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