Big Game Macau: NLHE (part 3)
Posted by Brian Rast
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About the 77 hand, what is your value raising range on the river? All sets and better, or the top x sets? Would you consider raising AJ for value? (if you somehow ended up having it) And which hands are you unlikely to have since you didn't 3bet the turn?
When calling the turn c/r, what is your river plan for other cards when facing a bet? Other than a 5 or a 7, it seems like just about any card puts you in a sticky spot. Do you expect the river to sometimes go check-check?
Can't wait for the PLO hands!!
Honestly, I think this is a turn spot where I could possibly decide to not 3bet any hands and just call in position in a spot where I can put maximum pressure on the river in position. Since it's a spot where I my range will be weaker than his in general (my double barrel turn range as compared to his c/c c/r range), if I divide my ranges up and create a 3bet raising range here, I'm worried that my calling range will be too light/capped & showdown happy.
As stated in the video, with my hand I think it's time to pull out the big guns and go for a GTO bluff in a spot where I believably can be calling behind with a very wide range on the turn that does include some big hands sets/straights, and I'm randomizing that bluff to be a small % of my weak hands... say with 55 or 77 only. Perhaps someone could convince me to include a few others bc that's too small a bluff %, but something like that seems reasonable.
you mentioned in the 44 hand there was some history of villain bluffing / betting rivers several times. maybe villain in 77 hand knows you're capable of double barreling and has seen you do this in the past ?
simply calling Tricky LAG Pro's turn raise probably caps your range in his eyes on a board loaded with flush and straight draws.
yeah i know u don't like reraising, but as played why not consider reraise/fold for the factors/reasons above, esp if you have played with Tricky LAG Pro in the past.
otherwise check the turn and leave yourself with a less difficult decision with a smaller pot on the river. any broadway or potentially a completed flush draw by checking turn may hit your range and you can reevaluate.
As far as checking back the turn - it might be the best play regardless of all of this analysis - but doing it in order to have a less difficult decision is never a good reason imo.
Very nice videos thus far. Thought I'd put in my 2cents about the 77 hand. I personally would like a check turn for 1. lowering the variance on not a strong of a hand. 2. Being able to call a river bet from villain on a missed flush draw turned into a bluff. and 3. not getting blown off the hand like you did on the river. You'll just be playing the guessing game on the river knowing that the villan is capable of turning a missed draw or small pair into a bluff on river.
I would have loved to see a call on the river ;)
For the 44 hand, what hands would you bluffraise the river with? Or the worst value hand?
With the 77 on the river, did you consider how many combos of 75 you had in your range (4/16?) compared to how many 55/77 without a spade you had in your range that play this way to the river?
If you feel that he calls a turn 3-bet with most of his range, then slowplaying on the turn would not be very believable.
And my last question, have you ever tanked for a long time on the river, only to raise (nuts/bluff)?
seems like I went derelict on this thread a while ago with some good posts to respond to:
for the 44 hand, in a live game there's probably not any specific hand i would always raise the river with... there's obviously a large range of hands that once villain bets river, never beat his value range, and all have merits to raising. I think live, i would raise when for live read purposes (bet timing, weakness-feeling, etc...), I felt my opponent was weak after leading river, and I had one of those hands - rather than taking specific hands from my range and raising them.
I love your question about what's the worst value hand I'm raising the river with... i suppose AT or maybe KT would be it. Like I said in the video, I would normally bet the turn with my hand as part of standard range-play in order to balance my flop floats, and to avoid the river situation (i find it easier to balance turn here than to c-back and balance river with bluff - raises... as you get a much better price on your bluffs i think), but i was trying to find specific ways to combat this opponent's river play, both his seeming aggression vs my normally weak range - check turn back spots ... as well as his over betting in those spots (e.g. in this spot I thought there was a chance he would sometimes just shove river for 2x pot... eliminating my need to raise). from a purely balancing standpoint... c/back turn and raise river is usually so value-weighted and devoid of bluffs, that against a thinking opponent it's difficult to do. i think in this spot given a number of variables in favor of this play (primarily the one listed - but also specific stack size i think causes many to pay off river lighter than they probably should after bet river and my shove) this option is the best... i agree with you that theoretically my play is generally unbalanced when people play paired boards like this. I do think it's an interesting river spot to bluff ofc against an opponent who will fully realize what our value range is AND is willing to vbet thinly.
on the 77 hand... again, good questions that are making me go beyond feel to combinatoric hand-counting when discussing my river value/bluffing range. Thank you, because it helps me mentally clarify what I'm doing and discussing. If I'm raising river (if I get there) always with JJ, AA, and a straight...let's say that's 1 combo of 75 (always raising turn with 75ss, and how about a 2/3 - 1/3 split where i raise 2/3 of the time)... 3 combos of AA, and 1 combo of JJ (i raise turn 2/3 again)... that leaves 5 value combos i'm raising... i probably need to make my bluff-combo here small... i think the best hands would be 55 or 77 that don't have spades (increasing his chance of having combo draws that he's playing this way and folding) - that would be 6 combos of those hands... that seems like the way to do it - i should always raise river with 55/77 no spade and those are my only bluff-raise hands.
i agree that given my logic, raising turn has a lot of merits in order to get value, and i should definitely do it some - a good reason to divvy up my nuttish turn hands into some raising and some calling to balance as i did above... i think then 77/55 with a spade (3 combos each = 6 combos) are great turn bluff-raising hands (block his straight and block some combo draws). but, i also think that we should not raise turn with all our straights/JJ to keep a few in our river range... raising does define our value range a lot with awkward stacks. 870k in pot... if i raise another say 500-600k , after calling there is about 2M in pot with just about 2.5M behind... giving him a good price to call and play his rivers... I think this spot is very interesting and worthy of further analysis!! I also think since he might have a lot of sets here, maybe always raising JJ here is an interesting option... and being more 50/50 calling with 75? not sure, what do you think?
Also, I have taken a long time in order to raise river with nuts/bluff, although generally I don't... and i do think you can do that... i just think in live situations you need to be very careful about the energy you give off... often times i find that opponents give off an energy and feel that after 30 seconds - 1 minute it can become very clear what's going on. especially if during the beginning of your river time, you are focused on only 1 or 2 of your strategic options, and it's not until say... 1+ minutes of thinking you consider the other (often times raising) - you might have already signaled very clearly that you don't like your hand with various body language/energy/etc...
Mr. Rast -
The 77 hand is quite interesting, and I'd like to see you revisit it at the beginning/end of another video. Specifically I'd like to see what assumptions are necessary to make a river raise>call, and raise>fold. I suspect this is quite difficult to achieve since we are either trying to fold out a set by repping 10 value combos, or we are repping only 8 combos when he has the As. It also does not seem unreasonable that he would expect us to 3B the turn with JJ, 7x5x at least some of the time.
Questions re: villains expected range in 77 hand (Apologies in advance-I haven't played nlhe in awhile):
1) PREFLOP: Does villain call 9s7s or Ks9s preflop? Does he play all suited aces (Id expect some people leave out As6s-As8s)? Which, if any, suited hands do you expect him to preferentially 3B (I would guess he has at least some frequency with ATs-AKs, unless he is playing a no-3B deep oop strategy from his SB)?
2) FLOP: Do you expect villain to X/R A5s, A7s, A2s? You mentioned in the video you thought he could take
the X/C flop X/R turn line with As2s, but my rusty hold-em logic would prefer to X/R A2s on the flop since it has less showdown equity than say A8s-AJs, and often feels forced to bluff river if turn checks through since it loses to every ace.
3) TURN: You mention in the video you think he X/R turn with a hand like QsTs. Presumably also KsQs, KsTs, and Ks9s (if he plays it preflop). How often will villain X/R with 9s8s, Ts9s, Ts8s compared to X/F (is it only
slightly less than his frequency with QsTs, or much less)? Is villain X/R AsJs on the turn for value (I would guess he normally plays it as a bluff catcher to protect his X/C range)? Is your turn barreling range wide enough that villain would ever consider X/C As8s+ in attempts to showdown?
1) i think opponent will play 97ss and K9ss pre flop... probably with a chance to 3bet. i expect him to play all suited aces as well
2) I like your logic, and it seems reasonable... not sure how he would play them specifically... but i think x/r flop or x/c - x/r turn is reasonable with all Axss combos... and your breakdown makes the most sense, but whether or not villain would do that specifically in this spot idk.
3) i could make guesses here, but truthfully i don't know for a lot of these. i think villain is likely to turn the 2 overs with spades (to flop) to x/r frequently, but just a guess.
You make really, really good videos. I hate NL cash but it is still very interesting to watch. I am looking forward to the PLO video. Live PLO is such a crazy played game that it will surely be really fun and interesting.
Nice video!
I would just like to ask you about Q9cc hand because you said that is easy call in online games. But i think that is also quite easy fold online. I mean his line just screams that he has fullhouse or quads. And we are also protected by a fish and just no one bluffs in this spots with that line. Do you think my thinking is correct?
Great NL Videos in Macau - Hard to read stack sizes with all the zeroes.
Nice vids Brian. I like the 44 turn check back, especially because a lot of his flop raises have some perceived equity (QJ, A5s, etc) that he could "realize", giving him reason to call a river bet should it go check-bet.
Are there any other pros who make live cash game videos?
.. games that are played in casinos?
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