at the 13:00 mark with the discussion about the value of big stacks, so it is possible you continue on to cover my caveat in the remainder of the video, apologies if so.
A big stack being more able to collect bounties should be phrased in terms of the players position relative to the average stack and some small consideration to their position at their current table. The reason for this is a big stack from 2nd to 1st in a 1k person tournament does not really increase your EV of future bounties, you have significant decreasing marginal returns to stack size increases the farther above average stacked you are!
Also, keeping in mind that there is still some ICM pressure in that the bigger stacked you are the less adding chips to your stack will be valuable, and you should prefer not to, as say 10th/1000 really want to be getting it in w/ 11th/1000 in a close spot cEV, as the double isn't worth as much due to ICM, the KO is relatively small when compared to value of possible future KOs given your crushing big stack.
This means there is a dynamic equilibrium that pushes you towards having a strong preference for a stack that is somewhere well above average as compared to an average or below average stack, but only a weak preference for having a top 5% stack compared to a top 15% stack say.
This changes a lot in PKOs, if big stacks have bigger bounties (as is the case a lot of the time) then having a huge stack is, I presume, always better no matter the size.
Hi, was having a discussion w some1 about the value of a bounty in a $21 SKO where $10 goes into the prizepool and $10 to a some1 who busts another player. If I make the calculation I understand that a bounty will be the equivalent to starting stack: ($10/$10)*3000 = 3000. Now some1 else was adamant the bounty was only worth 1500 or even less. This was his response to me saying its worth 3k: " if that is true, you should be indifferent to recieving 3000 chips or $10 in your pocket or the other way selling 3000 chips for $10 in your pocket. In the $22 SKO if you offered me 3000 chips or $10 I'm taking 3000 chips no question. Apestyle's (and others) mistake is they neglict the equity from your stack in the bounty portion of the tournament and only equating the buyin to the money going into the payout structure having chips lets you win bounty money. Another way to think about it, say there are 1000 players that means there are 3m chips in play. If 3000 chips = $10, then there is $10,000 in tournament equity but 1000 players put up $22,000 to play so what happened to all the other equity? ... Right, it's in the chips and the 3k = $10 calculation is undervaluing chips. Another thing in SKO is that chips change value a lot.Bounty is worth 1500 chips (from 3000 starting stack), but not always. Say you are the start of the tournament adding 1500 chips to a player with 2500 chips is more valuable than adding 1500 chips to a 4000 stack. Essentially being a short stack in a SKO is double punishment." So what do you think?
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at the 13:00 mark with the discussion about the value of big stacks, so it is possible you continue on to cover my caveat in the remainder of the video, apologies if so.
A big stack being more able to collect bounties should be phrased in terms of the players position relative to the average stack and some small consideration to their position at their current table. The reason for this is a big stack from 2nd to 1st in a 1k person tournament does not really increase your EV of future bounties, you have significant decreasing marginal returns to stack size increases the farther above average stacked you are!
Also, keeping in mind that there is still some ICM pressure in that the bigger stacked you are the less adding chips to your stack will be valuable, and you should prefer not to, as say 10th/1000 really want to be getting it in w/ 11th/1000 in a close spot cEV, as the double isn't worth as much due to ICM, the KO is relatively small when compared to value of possible future KOs given your crushing big stack.
This means there is a dynamic equilibrium that pushes you towards having a strong preference for a stack that is somewhere well above average as compared to an average or below average stack, but only a weak preference for having a top 5% stack compared to a top 15% stack say.
This changes a lot in PKOs, if big stacks have bigger bounties (as is the case a lot of the time) then having a huge stack is, I presume, always better no matter the size.
This is a really good post. I agree w/ everything in it.
Hi, was having a discussion w some1 about the value of a bounty in a $21 SKO where $10 goes into the prizepool and $10 to a some1 who busts another player. If I make the calculation I understand that a bounty will be the equivalent to starting stack: ($10/$10)*3000 = 3000. Now some1 else was adamant the bounty was only worth 1500 or even less. This was his response to me saying its worth 3k: " if that is true, you should be indifferent to recieving 3000 chips or $10 in your pocket or the other way selling 3000 chips for $10 in your pocket. In the $22 SKO if you offered me 3000 chips or $10 I'm taking 3000 chips no question. Apestyle's (and others) mistake is they neglict the equity from your stack in the bounty portion of the tournament and only equating the buyin to the money going into the payout structure having chips lets you win bounty money. Another way to think about it, say there are 1000 players that means there are 3m chips in play. If 3000 chips = $10, then there is $10,000 in tournament equity but 1000 players put up $22,000 to play so what happened to all the other equity? ... Right, it's in the chips and the 3k = $10 calculation is undervaluing chips. Another thing in SKO is that chips change value a lot.Bounty is worth 1500 chips (from 3000 starting stack), but not always. Say you are the start of the tournament adding 1500 chips to a player with 2500 chips is more valuable than adding 1500 chips to a 4000 stack. Essentially being a short stack in a SKO is double punishment." So what do you think?
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