Steve - with the Askh hand on table 1 on 734sss. My standard is to bet this here but I would be checking that particular turn card for sure since it doesn't really change much. I would either check fold the turn or go 3 vs. an unknown.
My problem with going 3 here is that I'm on Bovada where random players tend to just call down too much. I'm guessing the thought process here is that you think this stars villain is a reg and can fold overpairs or a flopped pair by going 3 (our hand DOES have a ton of equity any A, K, 3, spade, Q or J we can bet the river). I'm just not so confident that I could do this on Bovada 50NL and profit from it since the board doesn't change a whole lot OTT. I prefer barreling higher cards at this level because thought processes at 50 and probably 100NL seem pretty basic such as: "I have a pair and he can have AK so I call," or "A higher card than mine hit the turn so I guess I can fold," etc.
Can you explain how you would approach this hand when games are typically more cally on Bovada than reg-like on stars? I could also see air stabbing a ton here (on Bovada) and the best play being to just c/r the flop getting another bet from his air (ranges are wide on Bovada) and shipping the turn with a ton of equity as we can play AA or KK with the spade this way as well as our AsKc. You get air to stab and at the same time represent a pretty strong hand such as a flopped flush or slowplayed overpair.
If my opponents are not going to fold pairs then yeah I certainly wouldn't be going 3 barrels. I agree that flop is pretty close and not a huge deal either way. Vs the opponents you describe I like x/c, though you're going to face some difficult turn/river spots.
Also, on the 3betting AKd vs. UTG raises. What is your plan if we get 4bet here? What sizes are you calling and what sizes are you folding to(if any) vs. unknown villains? I'd imagine most people will not be 4bet bluffing utg, possibly a super small portion of the time, so I guess that would make AKd as well as the JJ you mentioned folds pre-flop if 4bet to say 20bbs+ oop (assuming we 3bet to 9bbs)? Thanks again.
I would generally flat any reasonably sized 4bet with AKs. If your opponents are 4betting so narrow that you can fold AKs, I still think the 3bet is clearly correct as you face a 4bet rarely and the other two scenarios are both quite good.
Steve- Thanks for the advice on 3betting AKs and JJ vs utg. How would you apply this concept to Bovada 6-max 50NL where guys who 4bet you from utg or utg+1 normally have you crushed with a tighter range when they 4-bet you (probably not 4betting loose enough) ?
I'm guessing I can 3bet JJ/AKs/AKo still and just fold the jacks vs a 4bet (unless its min) and still flat AKs/AK in position. Thanks!
If your opponents call too much and don't 4bet bluff then I think AKo is a really clear 3b/f. Getting the pot hu with position against a range with lots of dominated hands is a great result. With JJ I think you can make a strong argument for flatting especially with many likely weak players behind. Both 3b and flat will be hugely +EV, hard to say which is better.
Around 45 mins top left table we see a BTN open and a SB 3bet and you say you don't play a cold calling range there. I also just play 4bet or fold there as well at the moment but I feel like this can't be the best choice in a lot of situations. Now that a lot of SB regs are 3betting around 20% in this spot I feel that it makes more sense to start flatting with hands like 88 or ATs, which have pretty good equity vs SB in position and also do alright even if BTN comes along.
We will end up flatting a fairly narrow condensed range but I am not sure how much of an issue this is given that we are IP and SB has a fairly wide linear range. SB also can't attack our capped range with large bets 100bb deep due to the low SPR in 3bet pots, and will have to play fairly honestly when BTN comes along for the most part even though BTN will end up calling with a wider range than usual. We open ourselves up to getting 4bet by BTN but he still can't go crazy with it as he has to worry about SB.
I play micros atm so it's probably best to ignore the above for the most part as people don't 3bet wide enough to justify having a flatting range imo. Would be very interested to hear your thoughts on this though regardless.
I pretty much agree with you. I think it's much easier to balance 4bet or fold and so I can pretty easily come up with a strategy that only costs me a little bit of EV compared to playing a flatting range. Vs 20% I think ATs is a pretty clear 4bet and 88 could go either way.
You suggest doing this in certains spot as a value bet and as a bluff right ??
I'm saying this because shoving here as a bluff this would take a lot of courage and probably therapy if it goes wrong :)
But knowing it has a good Expected Value I think I'll have to consider it next time.
yes as value and bluff. I think generally the psychological issue is that you look (or feel like you look) pretty dumb when you're bluffing and get called, and for most people that hurts a lot more than making the bluff, getting a fold and no one ever knowing. For me, the best way to reduce this kind of psychological bias is to put in work away from the table and try to override the emotions with numbers.
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Steve - with the Askh hand on table 1 on 734sss. My standard is to bet this here but I would be checking that particular turn card for sure since it doesn't really change much. I would either check fold the turn or go 3 vs. an unknown.
My problem with going 3 here is that I'm on Bovada where random players tend to just call down too much. I'm guessing the thought process here is that you think this stars villain is a reg and can fold overpairs or a flopped pair by going 3 (our hand DOES have a ton of equity any A, K, 3, spade, Q or J we can bet the river). I'm just not so confident that I could do this on Bovada 50NL and profit from it since the board doesn't change a whole lot OTT. I prefer barreling higher cards at this level because thought processes at 50 and probably 100NL seem pretty basic such as: "I have a pair and he can have AK so I call," or "A higher card than mine hit the turn so I guess I can fold," etc.
Can you explain how you would approach this hand when games are typically more cally on Bovada than reg-like on stars? I could also see air stabbing a ton here (on Bovada) and the best play being to just c/r the flop getting another bet from his air (ranges are wide on Bovada) and shipping the turn with a ton of equity as we can play AA or KK with the spade this way as well as our AsKc. You get air to stab and at the same time represent a pretty strong hand such as a flopped flush or slowplayed overpair.
As a side note I feel like this hand is pretty hard to mess up no matter how we play it and my energy might be better spent focusing on tougher spots.
If my opponents are not going to fold pairs then yeah I certainly wouldn't be going 3 barrels. I agree that flop is pretty close and not a huge deal either way. Vs the opponents you describe I like x/c, though you're going to face some difficult turn/river spots.
Also, on the 3betting AKd vs. UTG raises. What is your plan if we get 4bet here? What sizes are you calling and what sizes are you folding to(if any) vs. unknown villains? I'd imagine most people will not be 4bet bluffing utg, possibly a super small portion of the time, so I guess that would make AKd as well as the JJ you mentioned folds pre-flop if 4bet to say 20bbs+ oop (assuming we 3bet to 9bbs)? Thanks again.
I would generally flat any reasonably sized 4bet with AKs. If your opponents are 4betting so narrow that you can fold AKs, I still think the 3bet is clearly correct as you face a 4bet rarely and the other two scenarios are both quite good.
Steve- Thanks for the advice on 3betting AKs and JJ vs utg. How would you apply this concept to Bovada 6-max 50NL where guys who 4bet you from utg or utg+1 normally have you crushed with a tighter range when they 4-bet you (probably not 4betting loose enough) ?
I'm guessing I can 3bet JJ/AKs/AKo still and just fold the jacks vs a 4bet (unless its min) and still flat AKs/AK in position. Thanks!
If your opponents call too much and don't 4bet bluff then I think AKo is a really clear 3b/f. Getting the pot hu with position against a range with lots of dominated hands is a great result. With JJ I think you can make a strong argument for flatting especially with many likely weak players behind. Both 3b and flat will be hugely +EV, hard to say which is better.
Hey Steve
Note for future :
the VLC player bar kind of bothers popping up all the time, its blocks table #3s action a bit, you can use spacebar : )
Otherwise solid as usual!
Cheers
Thanks for the heads up, sorry about that. I'm a bit compulsive about moving the mouse while I talk, I'll try to tone that down for future videos :)
Hi Steve, I found the video very helpful.
Around 45 mins top left table we see a BTN open and a SB 3bet and you say you don't play a cold calling range there. I also just play 4bet or fold there as well at the moment but I feel like this can't be the best choice in a lot of situations. Now that a lot of SB regs are 3betting around 20% in this spot I feel that it makes more sense to start flatting with hands like 88 or ATs, which have pretty good equity vs SB in position and also do alright even if BTN comes along.
We will end up flatting a fairly narrow condensed range but I am not sure how much of an issue this is given that we are IP and SB has a fairly wide linear range. SB also can't attack our capped range with large bets 100bb deep due to the low SPR in 3bet pots, and will have to play fairly honestly when BTN comes along for the most part even though BTN will end up calling with a wider range than usual. We open ourselves up to getting 4bet by BTN but he still can't go crazy with it as he has to worry about SB.
I play micros atm so it's probably best to ignore the above for the most part as people don't 3bet wide enough to justify having a flatting range imo. Would be very interested to hear your thoughts on this though regardless.
I pretty much agree with you. I think it's much easier to balance 4bet or fold and so I can pretty easily come up with a strategy that only costs me a little bit of EV compared to playing a flatting range. Vs 20% I think ATs is a pretty clear 4bet and 88 could go either way.
Alright good to know, thanks!
48:36 The jamming river x3 pot talk :)
You suggest doing this in certains spot as a value bet and as a bluff right ??
I'm saying this because shoving here as a bluff this would take a lot of courage and probably therapy if it goes wrong :)
But knowing it has a good Expected Value I think I'll have to consider it next time.
yes as value and bluff. I think generally the psychological issue is that you look (or feel like you look) pretty dumb when you're bluffing and get called, and for most people that hurts a lot more than making the bluff, getting a fold and no one ever knowing. For me, the best way to reduce this kind of psychological bias is to put in work away from the table and try to override the emotions with numbers.
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