ProView: Phil Reviews Lufthansa27 at $.25/$.50 6-Max PLO
Posted by Phil Galfond
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wow review video for 0.50, great! will see check now
Hey Phil and everyone who's not Phil,
At around 40m when you're discussing OOP's range after he donks river on QsTs4cAd7d, I'm still struggling to find bluffs for him too, but I think his one pair nfds should have close to 0 showdown value after IP bets into 3 on the flop. Seems like he should have lots more nfds than KJxx being first to call the flop, so he should have at least some AJJx, AJ98 (a pretty specific holding lol) to balance a river donk if this is his standard line with bare KJ.
Still, seems unlikely that 1) this is his standard line, so he's trying to balance it properly and 2) in trying to balance it he's actively looking for Axxx hands to bluff with otr (or calls with a lot of J9xx ott, as you discuss), so he's probably value heavy, but...interesting idea.
If IP is double barreling a hand like TT78 and then folding river, might it be worthwhile to set this play up? Actually, I think that's my question - theoretically, it makes more sense to donk river when IP is betting linear/merged (e.g. in a 4 way pot), because it lets OOP seize some value against a range that's kinda thick in the middle (i.e. likely to xb a lot)?
All good points/questions. I do expect many players IP to bet all sets on the turn, and to bet AQ and some AT (if they have it somehow) for value and protection, as well as to avoid capping themselves. Not saying this is correct, but I see it often and I do it often.
I don't think OOP can donk river with a non KJ hand for value (not that you suggested this, but I wondered about it during the video). I think x/c turn with some KJ and with some AJJss type hands (as you mentioned), and lead river with them (not ALL KJ hands of course) is a very reasonable strategy.
your lufthansa pronounciation game is top notch :P
Phil, you're the reason I joined RIO in the first place. Essential members really appreciate your videos. Thank you.
Hi community! This is my first post here. I strongly agree with 2QT2BSTR8, I just joined with an Essential Membership mainly for your videos Phil! Thank you for the content!
Just curious as to when discussing the top set TT hand you say that "betting a smaller amount and not INDUCING a shove" would be disastrous.
I'm assuming your thoughts are that players would feel more confident with a bluff that is for their whole stack, therefore bluff more often when able to go all-in.
Our goal when betting here should be to charge draws and allow dominated hands to make disastrously aggressive actions (check-raise).
So my thought is that weak c-betting (50-70%pot) in spots like these vs aggressive opponents could be superior since our holding should be perceived as much weaker (AA,KK,Tx) which i think can be a more powerful inducer. Also I think a near POT-sized bet might make weak flush/gutter and pair/double-gutters fold assuming you have the Hearts covered or smashed the flop in someway. These weak draws might get frisky if they sense weakness in you sizing and try to fold out your hand.
This weak c-bet can disguise our strength, and possible be the inducer to making bottom set or two pairs to commit to the hand.
With top set we generally want to bet/action-reopened/ship.
Though vs passive opponents a weak c-bet would not charge draws enough.
My main point was not so much that I wanted to induce more weak hands to bluff-shove. I feel that in a multiway pot like this, it's unlikely that weak hands will bluff raise against any sizing.
I like sizing up here so that some of their hands (like top two, or AA+NFD, or bottom set) will feel that calling OOP puts too much of their stack in to make it more attractive than shoving right away. Making sure we get all the money in against those hands on the flop is very valuable, as the board can easily change and prevent us from getting action (or winning the hand).
One other reason i like a bigger sizing in this pot is the fact it's 4-way. 3-way or HU, we don't have to be as worried about protection, but when there are 12 cards out there(3 players x 4 cards :)) we have to bet larger, that makes sense from a theory standpoint, eh? And, kind of what Phil touched on; some of the opponents are indifferent to sizing. whether betting 70% of the pot or 90% of the pot, it's not going to make that much of a difference, so with the goods we ought to size up. You saw this first hand in the example, the guy flatted his second nut flush draw with not much else with it.
Thanks for the video! Two tables was a great choice, it helped me follow the action a lot better. Looking forward to more content.
Hi Phil, thanks so so much for the review. Your pronunciation was good.
Sorry for being a little late to join the discussion...
First of all I'll write down my HUD and color codes, maybe it'll make viewing the video easier for some people:
1st line: Name//Hands//WTSD%//WWSF%//AF//Aggression%
2nd line: VPIP//PFR//3bet//Fold To 3bet//4bet
3rd line: RFI EP//RFI MP//RFI CO//RFI BTN//RFI SB
4th line: SB Fold vs BTN//SB 3bet vs BTN//BB Fold vs BTN//BB Fold vs SB
5th line: Flop CB//Fold to Flop CB//Flop Raise CB//Flop Donk//Raise Flop Donk//BTN CC raiser
6th line: Flop CB-Fold//Skip Cbet and CF Flop//Skip CB and CF Flop 3bet Pot//Flop Bet vs Missed CB IP//River Bet//River Fold
7th line: Turn CB//Turn Fold to CB//Turn CR OOP//Delayed CB IP//Delayed CB 3bet Pot//Turn Bet vs Missed CB OOP//Skip Flop CB and Fold to Turn Bet IP
Colors: Blue colors - looser/poor players, green - tight regs, yellow - more LAG regs, VPIP over 25, red - LAG regs with high 3bet stats (~10).
Some comments about the video:
I am playing pretty tight, around 25/15/5, so I guess I made somewhat unconscious effort to play a little bit looser. This is the reason for some of the strange opens (like the AQ84ss hand from CO and the 3456r hand around 27.45). I think one thing for me to learn would be which are the spots where I could open up some more. I'm starting to realize that the main reason for my tightness is folding too much from the blinds. So in the case You are making further parts from this footage this is something You could point out. (As Phil mentioned, there are rake concerns at lower stakes, so combined with the fact that I don't think I have a big postflop edge playing OOP I have kept my ranges somewhat tight).
The AKT3ccc hand at the 2.30min mark is in my opinion a spot that makes Phil's videos so good. A somewhat standard hand in itself, but the way You explain the same spot but with different conditions (which would lead to different actions) is very interesting and valuable.
The KKT4ss (starts ~32min) was really interesting. I felt strongly that betting the flop is better b/c we have very few good turns, we block some wraps (that with an added flush draw might want to c/r) and sets, we'd like to end the hand on the flop.
I agree that turn can go either way. Can someone point me to the content about math on multistreet bluffs that Phil was talking about?
River is really awkward but all in all, villain could definitely play KJ this way and it's hard to find many bluffs for him. I don't see people turning an Ass hand into a bluff too often at these stakes. In my opinion the most likely bluff would be J98 + fd, which definitely can be a turn call for many players at PLO50, but it's a pretty specific holding which therefore shouldn't appear too often.
So what do you guys think would be the worst hand for us to call here? Is there any difference between AQ/AT and a set here?
Thanks again for the review, Phil. Looking forward to the next part.
Oh, one last thing - it definitely is weird to hear Phil say "50 cents".
Hi Phil, thank you for this essential video. I appreciate you taking your time to making really great videos for your essential members
Before asking this question to the community or Phil, I would like to say I have extremely limited PLO experience and am by no means even a PLO amateur.
That being said, @13:34, when you say you prefer to raise your KT72 on T-5-4r would you triple barrel most run outs to try and represent TTxx 55xx or give up after your theoretical flop raise?? Would that be a standard spot for villain to fold a lot of his dry overpairs?
I hope You don't mind me giving my 2c...
Barreling depends on the runout.
If our flop raise gets called (one reason for raising is the fact that T54r doesn't hit most SB raising ranges and we can take the pot down on the flop) we can barrel on any 23678TK. 4 and 5 are somewhat reasonable too, because they shouldn't hit villain's range, although he/she will probably call with an overpair on these turns. I thintk 9JQA are turns, that improve a lot of villains flop continuing range without improving us, so these are not the best barrelling cards. I would assume that Ace is the best one of them, b/c it makes villain fold his dry JJ-KK hands.
More generally speaking, I think it would be reasonable to assume that dry overpairs will fold to our barrel OTT if they didn't improve in any way.
The fact of the matter is, we have more really strong hands on this flop texture and as Phil already pointed out we have some blockers to draws that could call us, so it's a good spot to apply pressure, especially at plo50, where people probably tend to fight back less aggressively.
Not at all! I appreciate your help.
Just another question, lets say on a clean run out such as 4o turn and a 2o river, would a stronger player fold aces to a three barrel? How credible is this line generally speaking?
Thank you!
It is hugely dependant on the player, but on average I wouldn't go too crazy trying to get people off aces on this particular runout.
Ah I see that makes sense. Thank you!
at 19:50 what do you think about this fold pre? im not advocating a call but i would think it's close, maybe a slightly loosing one?
utg pots with 300+bb, button flats with about 62bb, and we are SB with 89(hh)J8 and 180bb, the big blind(yet to act obv) has about 150bb. Again, with these stacks, is this ever a flat??
to change things up a bit and put a spin on theory/stack size; what if we are in the exact same spot but literally everyone on the table has exactly 50bb. Would this encourage a call moreso or less? I have to think it would encourage a call moreso as our hand is more non robust. To what degree? i am thinking probably not much of one, but a call would be more profitable at 50bb effective than 180bb effective. Is my train of thought correct in this manner?
Also, how about the 3456 rainbow hand in 2nd position that Phil thinks is a "clear-cut" fold. how much better does our connectors have to be here? Are we opening 6789 rainbow in this spot, assuming same player pool?
2 tables for the videos is perfect when you guys do 3 or more I have ot pause go back and re watch the other tables. But 2 i can watch the whole thing and it runs smoothly. Very interesting you check back the K34 2 pair at 8 min of vide on the flop sometimes. I never do it and I guess I should my check back range is to weak and they just bet and i always fold. But it makes since cause any K they have or flush draw our equity is not that great. If we are op do you cb if its a 3b pot? or do you turn it into a check call or even a check raise since to many turns will be hard to play?
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