On the subject of Bovada game integrity: I recently was notified by support that a collusion ring was identified in my 10/20 NL games and I did a receive some money back which was a totally unexpected and pleasant surprise.
I have been playing PLO since the stoneage but had a break for 9 month. I notice us fold so much of the low / mid rundowns when it opened to us. 2 examples from this video is 4789ds in CO when UTG opens and in the end of the video OMG likes a fold with 8h 6s 5h 4h on the B after UTG (220bb) and CO (75bb) call (no short stacks in the blind).
I never fold the 4789ds spot and in the last hand I even put in some 3bets and never fold . Seams to me that we forget to value our position and balancing our board coverage.
Our range must be extremely high card heavy and it will be tough to represent so many "bad for the openers flops" since we actually have less low/mid cards than the opener.
Been running some preflop sims and it is true that we never will be a favorite in raw equity. I suspect that the fact that people play so much from the BB hurt the equity of flatting this hands, is that's why the preflop strategy have change so dramatic?
I can maybe understand the folds as an exploitable preflop strategy in very loose game but fold as standard feels so wrong to me.
For me, the problem with these hands is that on the board that they hit, they actually don't hit them quite that strongly. You do well against hands that missed, but not well against other hands that hit. Which means that you'll win some number of small pots, and then lose more of the big ones. You'll also have lots of half-misses which are going to invite mistakes one way or another, and you'll have turn or river cards that make you hate life even when you had a good hand on the flop. It's also not all that hard for the OOP opponent to have decent equity, often all it takes is a higher flush draw or an overpair.
Basically, you end up with an equity realization problem with hands that didn't have that much equity to begin with. But of course this is countered by the problem you end up with if you have no hands at all that hit certain board textures.
In poker, nothing is black or white obviously, but I just think it's going to take players putting in an exceptional amount of money when they're behind to make these hands profitable. Of course there are players who do that, but if you are playing against someone good, they just won't. You'll also have better versions of these low or middling rundowns, you really don't have to choose the weakest versions of them.
That said, with better versions of rundowns and position in heads-up situations, I personally like to mix between calling and 3-betting just to have them sometimes in both ranges.
4568 seems like a fold for sure, while re-popping the dub suited 4789 seems ok. In the cutoff though, with 3 left to go and the original opener, you're still going to get 4b 15% of the time by a top 4% hand. But you get to call...just something to think about. Some coverage with a double suited rundown seems fine for a game plan.
I think the 8654 is pretty clear cut. As Justin mentioned, I don't hate a 3-bet with 9874ds but I think against a strong player it will be losing money.
16:15 upperleft table with AcKhQcJs, we semibluf bet the flop and get called by the preflop raiser. We turn the nutflushdraw and then check while the checkcall of the preflopraiser indicates that he is weak. We expect to be stil behind on the turn but against a weak hand so in my opinion a potsized barrel on the turn should have been a better play and we still have the nutfd and some top 2 pair outs if get called?
Hi Phil, not a question on this video per se, but in general on your study routine: I remember in another video you said you don't use software as much as a lot of other guys, but I'm sure you put in plenty of time working on your game away from the table. So when you're working on your game, what do you do?
I actually don't do much away from the table. About 20% of my away-from-the-table number-crunching has been for RIO videos. I know that I seem like a focused, responsible, hard worker, but the reality is that I don't have a very good attention span, and as a result my work ethic isn't great.
I have always learned almost entirely through playing, watching videos, and talking strategy with friends / the community (aka methods that I find enjoyable).
Often I do a good job of judging the merits of various strategies when I come across them in conversation, videos, or my opponents' play, but there are occasions where I can't come to a conclusion on my own. This is the main time that I'll look to run some math and see if I can figure it out.
The #1 thing I like to focus on when I get the inspiration to do some work away from the table is looking through stats on opponents and on myself. I like to find the major variations in strategy and try to figure out both the merits of different strategies and the logic/psychology behind them.
Given that I don't study as much as my opponents, I think that going through stats and HHs is by far the best use of my energy. If my opponents make big strategy adjustments and I can't figure out why, that's when I will know I'm missing something.
It hasn't happened yet, but maybe that will be the motivation I need to stop slacking :)
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On the subject of Bovada game integrity: I recently was notified by support that a collusion ring was identified in my 10/20 NL games and I did a receive some money back which was a totally unexpected and pleasant surprise.
Mikey plays well
Great video, love the leakfinders.
I have been playing PLO since the stoneage but had a break for 9 month. I notice us fold so much of the low / mid rundowns when it opened to us. 2 examples from this video is 4789ds in CO when UTG opens and in the end of the video OMG likes a fold with 8h 6s 5h 4h on the B after UTG (220bb) and CO (75bb) call (no short stacks in the blind).
I never fold the 4789ds spot and in the last hand I even put in some 3bets and never fold . Seams to me that we forget to value our position and balancing our board coverage.
Our range must be extremely high card heavy and it will be tough to represent so many "bad for the openers flops" since we actually have less low/mid cards than the opener.
Been running some preflop sims and it is true that we never will be a favorite in raw equity. I suspect that the fact that people play so much from the BB hurt the equity of flatting this hands, is that's why the preflop strategy have change so dramatic?
I can maybe understand the folds as an exploitable preflop strategy in very loose game but fold as standard feels so wrong to me.
Any comments are welcome
For me, the problem with these hands is that on the board that they hit, they actually don't hit them quite that strongly. You do well against hands that missed, but not well against other hands that hit. Which means that you'll win some number of small pots, and then lose more of the big ones. You'll also have lots of half-misses which are going to invite mistakes one way or another, and you'll have turn or river cards that make you hate life even when you had a good hand on the flop. It's also not all that hard for the OOP opponent to have decent equity, often all it takes is a higher flush draw or an overpair.
Basically, you end up with an equity realization problem with hands that didn't have that much equity to begin with. But of course this is countered by the problem you end up with if you have no hands at all that hit certain board textures.
In poker, nothing is black or white obviously, but I just think it's going to take players putting in an exceptional amount of money when they're behind to make these hands profitable. Of course there are players who do that, but if you are playing against someone good, they just won't. You'll also have better versions of these low or middling rundowns, you really don't have to choose the weakest versions of them.
That said, with better versions of rundowns and position in heads-up situations, I personally like to mix between calling and 3-betting just to have them sometimes in both ranges.
4568 seems like a fold for sure, while re-popping the dub suited 4789 seems ok. In the cutoff though, with 3 left to go and the original opener, you're still going to get 4b 15% of the time by a top 4% hand. But you get to call...just something to think about. Some coverage with a double suited rundown seems fine for a game plan.
I think the 8654 is pretty clear cut. As Justin mentioned, I don't hate a 3-bet with 9874ds but I think against a strong player it will be losing money.
Thanks Phil - I'm enjoying this series as a bovada reg
Please continue this series!
My virtual man crush continues. Phil, your insight is only outweighed by your manners. Kudos to your parents as they raised an exceptional human.
Thank you so much, Cole! This is a humbling compliment, especially because I am very thankful to my parents for being so awesome.
16:15 upperleft table with AcKhQcJs, we semibluf bet the flop and get called by the preflop raiser. We turn the nutflushdraw and then check while the checkcall of the preflopraiser indicates that he is weak. We expect to be stil behind on the turn but against a weak hand so in my opinion a potsized barrel on the turn should have been a better play and we still have the nutfd and some top 2 pair outs if get called?
Agreed! I mentioned in the video that I would have bet the turn, and your reasoning is great.
Hi Phil, not a question on this video per se, but in general on your study routine: I remember in another video you said you don't use software as much as a lot of other guys, but I'm sure you put in plenty of time working on your game away from the table. So when you're working on your game, what do you do?
I actually don't do much away from the table. About 20% of my away-from-the-table number-crunching has been for RIO videos. I know that I seem like a focused, responsible, hard worker, but the reality is that I don't have a very good attention span, and as a result my work ethic isn't great.
I have always learned almost entirely through playing, watching videos, and talking strategy with friends / the community (aka methods that I find enjoyable).
Often I do a good job of judging the merits of various strategies when I come across them in conversation, videos, or my opponents' play, but there are occasions where I can't come to a conclusion on my own. This is the main time that I'll look to run some math and see if I can figure it out.
The #1 thing I like to focus on when I get the inspiration to do some work away from the table is looking through stats on opponents and on myself. I like to find the major variations in strategy and try to figure out both the merits of different strategies and the logic/psychology behind them.
Given that I don't study as much as my opponents, I think that going through stats and HHs is by far the best use of my energy. If my opponents make big strategy adjustments and I can't figure out why, that's when I will know I'm missing something.
It hasn't happened yet, but maybe that will be the motivation I need to stop slacking :)
Also KKT4 has a size-able equity advantage vs an MP range at Bovada
16:10, "in mikey's shoes... by the player in mikey's shoes... by mikey in his own shoes..."
A+ :)
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