I don't have any comments on the action. Other than the AA+NFD there weren't many tough spots.
I do have a question though. I haven't played online since BF. I didn't notice any complete fish on any of his tables. How rare is it to have somebody who is just plain bad at those stakes? Is the edge majority of the time coming from playing better than other regs? If so I assume WRs are pretty low given it seems there were several good players besides JNandez.
A different but related question to help me gauge the state of the games even though I still can't play online is, how would you compare JNandezs play to an average reg at those stakes? Clearly he plays really well but better than an average reg and if so by a wide margin?
Hi guys, it's about time for me to get involved here.
First, but most importantly, I want to thank Phil for giving me the chance to get my play reviewed from my personal poker hero. This has been a dream, that developed trough the years, and I am very happy it finally happened.
About the footage: although there aren't too many dry spots, I think, the whole video had many so called "standard" spots in there. When I heard that Phil is looking for some higher stakes footage I just sat down at some tough tables and recorded, finished and send it in as fast as I could, in the hopes he would choose my footage, out of probably many videos, I assumed. I was never looking to send in some footage where I would look especially clever or good, not even especially solid. This is just a random session.
I think Zach brought up some interesting questions that I might be able to answer as well.
1) Where are the fish?
Well as I said, I tried to record some good footage thats why I sat down with who ever is willing to play. In general there aren't too many tables running full of regulars, but also then, not too many fish are swimming around the 10/20 pools, so the action is not always jamming at stars. There are reg-battles on a daily basis at 5/10+ on stars and I assume that some regulars have a clear edge over other regulars (can't tell in bb/100).
2) How good is JNandez vs. average at 5/10+?
This is obviously not super easy to answer, as I am talking about myself, and it's always difficult to be totally honest with yourself, but I'll give it a try. I would say that I am pretty solid in most 5/10 line-ups, these days. At 10/20 I think there are lots of very good and aggressive regulars who I would rate better than myself. I still play them, if I feel like I can get enough out of it overall, I don't mind. So I would rate myself as being a decent 5/10+ winning reg and an under average 10/20 reg at stars that can survive in some softer line-ups. I'm still learning PLO from all sources I can get my hands on and maybe someday I will be a solid 10/20 reg.
Thanks for the reply JNandez. I know one poster suggested you might have picked footage to not look bad but I assumed as you confirmed that it was just random. And some sessions are just that way. It still gave good footage to discuss.
Additionally, I find just watching what good regs play PF in standard spots good learning tools. Given I play live (25hands/hr) some likely weak/-EV pf hands sneak in on a premise people play poorly postflop. I overdue it a bit.
Zach, he's better qualified than me to answer the questions. It appears to me from watching the little footage that I did that he has an edge in those line ups, albeit small.
There's definitely edge to be had over regulars, even in the 25/50 & 50/100 games. To be honest, I think the edges shift, as people can play significantly better or worse on any given day.
24:13- the AAK8 on J42 vs Le Dolce. 1) You said a lot of people lead hands they plan on continuing with on this board. Really? I would expect it some % of the time, but on such a dry board I'd typically expect opponents to mostly check their whole range here. It's a board that JNandez is probably cbetting 100% and will often have a very small bet size, so there are pretty obvious benefits to checking strong hands as well as draws (as rare as they are on this texture.).
2) Right after that you said that "betting 400 still puts him in a push/fold situation." I really don't agree with that one. It may be the case that Le Dolce decides that, but I would definitely have a check/calling range in the BB there when facing a 1/3 pot bet, and I'm pretty certain its a terrible idea not to. Given that the majority of JNandez range is AA**, basically everything that is a dog to that, but still has equity to call should be check calling, and not jamming, no? The more FE I expected to have, the more I would jam in BB there obviously.
Anyway I am saying I disagree with betting small there, I just think there are serious consequences vs smart opponents who know that they can call with any piece (and don't have to just rip it).
Yeah the 400 into 1100 with AAxx struck me as strange too. I believe Oddsen in one of his videos said he splits his range at low SPR into pot/call's and then bets small with his air and monsters. I think that makes more sense than betting small with everything.
Yeah I think I may have brain-farted there re: people leading most hands they want to go with. I agree that people check a good portion of their range and I'm honestly not sure why I said otherwise.
I still think it's a good betsize... though the more AA heavy your range becomes, at some point you're just offering him a price.
Let's see if I can figure some stuff out....
I just did a quick analysis of KQJ9cc in villain's shoes vs a 4bet range that was very tight (99.7% of it had the best hand on the flop, for a reference of how tight).
Jamming flop yielded +$89 (vs. folding)
Calling the $440 and playing turns perfectly vs. range (assuming Jnandez folds no turns) yielded roughly +$210 (vs. folding)
Seems like a significant difference, but I don't have the experience with these kinds of calcs to know exactly how large that is in a pot this big, and how quickly it disappears when we factor in fold equity on the flop.
Just did the same calc with 8765ds (two backdoors) and found that you can turn it into a +$$68 hand by calling and playing turns perfectly, yet you can't jam flop because you have only 31% instead of the 36% needed.
Now, both of these hands have excellent visibility hands on turns, but it definitely proves what we logically assumed: that laying them a price can prove costly.
I think we can conclude that if our range is almost exclusively AA, we need to be potting here (perhaps betting smaller with the EXTREMELY rare air and sets).
If we actually have over 15% bet-folds here, then we need to start considering other options.
That last sentence was supposed to read "I am NOT saying I disagree with betting small there..." I think there are arguments for both sizes on this flop.
The AJT8 discussion was really good. I think it's also important to consider from a GT perspective. It's very easy to find light hands to call with on draw heavy flops, but you need to continue with some "air" on Q72r boards. AJT8 w/ bdnfd is basically the best no pair hand possible, and you probably need some of those to prevent your opponent from having a profitable cbet here.
You said you like these kinds of videos... you mean member review videos? Or just any footage review from mid-high 6m PLO? I'm always looking for suggestions.
Phil that math sounds reasonable. BB is going to have a lot of hands in the 25-40% equity range, and that is why I am a bit afraid of giving him a small bet size to play against. When he really has nothing he obviously folds either way (which makes us like betting smaller with air, but indifferent with AA right?). What if you only bet small for value with AAJ+ in this spot?
I think betting small with AAJ+ has a lot of merit, but first we need some bet-fold hands. I'm having trouble coming up with a 4bet range that contains many. I guess AKQTds (which might normally pot-call), is better off betting small if our opponent won't be jamming flops and will be folding brick turns.
Phil, I realy love the format. This and some tutorials like you did with "raising the turn ip/oop". This is the best content I've ever got. Thank you for that Site!
Phil, I'm pretty sure that the F3B stat that was being displayed is just "anytime there is a 3bet at the table and you fold." So if utg raises, co 3bets and we fold otb, that counts as a F3B. That's where the ridic high F3B stat came from I believe. The stat we want to look at is, "fold to 3b after raising."
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I don't have any comments on the action. Other than the AA+NFD there weren't many tough spots.
I do have a question though. I haven't played online since BF. I didn't notice any complete fish on any of his tables. How rare is it to have somebody who is just plain bad at those stakes? Is the edge majority of the time coming from playing better than other regs? If so I assume WRs are pretty low given it seems there were several good players besides JNandez.
A different but related question to help me gauge the state of the games even though I still can't play online is, how would you compare JNandezs play to an average reg at those stakes? Clearly he plays really well but better than an average reg and if so by a wide margin?
Hi guys, it's about time for me to get involved here.
First, but most importantly, I want to thank Phil for giving me the chance to get my play reviewed from my personal poker hero. This has been a dream, that developed trough the years, and I am very happy it finally happened.
About the footage: although there aren't too many dry spots, I think, the whole video had many so called "standard" spots in there. When I heard that Phil is looking for some higher stakes footage I just sat down at some tough tables and recorded, finished and send it in as fast as I could, in the hopes he would choose my footage, out of probably many videos, I assumed. I was never looking to send in some footage where I would look especially clever or good, not even especially solid. This is just a random session.
I think Zach brought up some interesting questions that I might be able to answer as well.
1) Where are the fish?
Well as I said, I tried to record some good footage thats why I sat down with who ever is willing to play. In general there aren't too many tables running full of regulars, but also then, not too many fish are swimming around the 10/20 pools, so the action is not always jamming at stars. There are reg-battles on a daily basis at 5/10+ on stars and I assume that some regulars have a clear edge over other regulars (can't tell in bb/100).
2) How good is JNandez vs. average at 5/10+?
This is obviously not super easy to answer, as I am talking about myself, and it's always difficult to be totally honest with yourself, but I'll give it a try. I would say that I am pretty solid in most 5/10 line-ups, these days. At 10/20 I think there are lots of very good and aggressive regulars who I would rate better than myself. I still play them, if I feel like I can get enough out of it overall, I don't mind. So I would rate myself as being a decent 5/10+ winning reg and an under average 10/20 reg at stars that can survive in some softer line-ups. I'm still learning PLO from all sources I can get my hands on and maybe someday I will be a solid 10/20 reg.
Hope this helps
Again, thanks Phil!
Merry Christmas to all RIO members
J
Thanks for the reply JNandez. I know one poster suggested you might have picked footage to not look bad but I assumed as you confirmed that it was just random. And some sessions are just that way. It still gave good footage to discuss.
Additionally, I find just watching what good regs play PF in standard spots good learning tools. Given I play live (25hands/hr) some likely weak/-EV pf hands sneak in on a premise people play poorly postflop. I overdue it a bit.
Thanks for chiming in Jnandez!
Zach, he's better qualified than me to answer the questions. It appears to me from watching the little footage that I did that he has an edge in those line ups, albeit small.
There's definitely edge to be had over regulars, even in the 25/50 & 50/100 games. To be honest, I think the edges shift, as people can play significantly better or worse on any given day.
Phil-
24:13- the AAK8 on J42 vs Le Dolce. 1) You said a lot of people lead hands they plan on continuing with on this board. Really? I would expect it some % of the time, but on such a dry board I'd typically expect opponents to mostly check their whole range here. It's a board that JNandez is probably cbetting 100% and will often have a very small bet size, so there are pretty obvious benefits to checking strong hands as well as draws (as rare as they are on this texture.).
2) Right after that you said that "betting 400 still puts him in a push/fold situation." I really don't agree with that one. It may be the case that Le Dolce decides that, but I would definitely have a check/calling range in the BB there when facing a 1/3 pot bet, and I'm pretty certain its a terrible idea not to. Given that the majority of JNandez range is AA**, basically everything that is a dog to that, but still has equity to call should be check calling, and not jamming, no? The more FE I expected to have, the more I would jam in BB there obviously.
Anyway I am saying I disagree with betting small there, I just think there are serious consequences vs smart opponents who know that they can call with any piece (and don't have to just rip it).
Thanks for the videos, really like these ones.
Yeah the 400 into 1100 with AAxx struck me as strange too. I believe Oddsen in one of his videos said he splits his range at low SPR into pot/call's and then bets small with his air and monsters. I think that makes more sense than betting small with everything.
Hey Ansky,
Yeah I think I may have brain-farted there re: people leading most hands they want to go with. I agree that people check a good portion of their range and I'm honestly not sure why I said otherwise.
I still think it's a good betsize... though the more AA heavy your range becomes, at some point you're just offering him a price.
Let's see if I can figure some stuff out....
I just did a quick analysis of KQJ9cc in villain's shoes vs a 4bet range that was very tight (99.7% of it had the best hand on the flop, for a reference of how tight).
Jamming flop yielded +$89 (vs. folding)
Calling the $440 and playing turns perfectly vs. range (assuming Jnandez folds no turns) yielded roughly +$210 (vs. folding)
Seems like a significant difference, but I don't have the experience with these kinds of calcs to know exactly how large that is in a pot this big, and how quickly it disappears when we factor in fold equity on the flop.
Just did the same calc with 8765ds (two backdoors) and found that you can turn it into a +$$68 hand by calling and playing turns perfectly, yet you can't jam flop because you have only 31% instead of the 36% needed.
Now, both of these hands have excellent visibility hands on turns, but it definitely proves what we logically assumed: that laying them a price can prove costly.
I think we can conclude that if our range is almost exclusively AA, we need to be potting here (perhaps betting smaller with the EXTREMELY rare air and sets).
If we actually have over 15% bet-folds here, then we need to start considering other options.
That last sentence was supposed to read "I am NOT saying I disagree with betting small there..." I think there are arguments for both sizes on this flop.
The AJT8 discussion was really good. I think it's also important to consider from a GT perspective. It's very easy to find light hands to call with on draw heavy flops, but you need to continue with some "air" on Q72r boards. AJT8 w/ bdnfd is basically the best no pair hand possible, and you probably need some of those to prevent your opponent from having a profitable cbet here.
Thanks, man!
You said you like these kinds of videos... you mean member review videos? Or just any footage review from mid-high 6m PLO? I'm always looking for suggestions.
Well I'm biased because I play in the same games as jnandez, but I have really enjoyed these two vids. I like review videos or your own.
Phil that math sounds reasonable. BB is going to have a lot of hands in the 25-40% equity range, and that is why I am a bit afraid of giving him a small bet size to play against. When he really has nothing he obviously folds either way (which makes us like betting smaller with air, but indifferent with AA right?). What if you only bet small for value with AAJ+ in this spot?
I think betting small with AAJ+ has a lot of merit, but first we need some bet-fold hands. I'm having trouble coming up with a 4bet range that contains many. I guess AKQTds (which might normally pot-call), is better off betting small if our opponent won't be jamming flops and will be folding brick turns.
Phil, I realy love the format. This and some tutorials like you did with "raising the turn ip/oop". This is the best content I've ever got. Thank you for that Site!
Phil, I'm pretty sure that the F3B stat that was being displayed is just "anytime there is a 3bet at the table and you fold." So if utg raises, co 3bets and we fold otb, that counts as a F3B. That's where the ridic high F3B stat came from I believe. The stat we want to look at is, "fold to 3b after raising."
Hi Phil!, It's probably to late for a reply, but how did u calculate the part with calling and playing it perfectly. Thank you.
Q27 board analyze was epic! Great video.
Thumbs up!
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